I believe that the real problem is poverty. And no, I do not mean wealth inequality or racism. I mean poverty.
Across all skin colours there is a cycle of poverty that is hard to get out of. When I saw George Floyd's life being callously snuffed out in front of my eyes, I did not see a black man. I saw a human being. Far from a perfect human being, but a human being nonetheless who for whatever reasons became caught up in a cycle of poverty, drug addiction, criminality, and incarceration that brought him to the time and place where he was murdered by the police.
One of the best takes I saw on this was from the powerful conservative voice of Candace Owens.
Police brutality does not favour one skin colour over another. The rates do, as expected, line up with the number of contacts police have with people of each skin colour, which lines up with the crime statistics for people of each skin colour. This is what you would expect. I have some numbers on that below.
Police brutality crosses all skin colours, both perpetrators and victims of it. It's so easy to cherry pick anecdotes and generalize to a big racial problem, and the media loves doing that for its click-bait appeal, but the numbers do not back that up. In addition to my numbers below, Tucker Carlson on his opinion show also breaks this down for us.
Yes, police brutality is a problem, and it will forever be a problem that we must vigilantly keep on top of. Power corrupts. The culture of silence amongst police officers, while I get where it comes from, especially needs to go.
Leftists will in general agree that poverty is a problem, but their solution is forcible wealth redistribution. That did not work well in Communist Russia or Communist China. The conservative viewpoint is that a rising tide powered by responsible capitalism lifts all boats, and that the best policy to combat racism is a true colour-blind equality of opportunity.
Capitalism has proven to be the most efficient economic system. If you interfere with capitalism, for example by more and more extreme wealth redistribution, you make everybody poorer. If you promote responsible capitalism, it makes everyone wealthier.
Of course, we already have massive wealth redistribution going on, and I am in favour of it, but there needs to be a limit. The wealthiest 50% of the citizens already pay almost all of the taxes (98%), and the top 10% are paying more than half of all taxes (60%). I am concerned that if you take it much farther it interferes with socially positive capitalism.
And when I promote capitalism I am not talking about disgusting crony capitalism, where certain organizations get an undue advantage due to government interference. Especially in regards to war profiteering and drug profiteering. I find that despicable and anti-capitalist. Republicans who claim to be conservatives are some of the worst offenders (e.g., Dick Cheney).
Nor when I promote capitalism am I talking about a complete laissez fair capitalism, where the profit motive reigns supreme and excesses are not reigned in through reasonable government regulation.
I am not advocating for any sort of extreme position. A well-regulated capitalist system where working hard and clever ideas are appropriately rewarded, where the wealthy bear the brunt of taxation, and where democratically arrived at laws are fairly and evenly enforced is the sweet spot.
This is a true conservative's approach to the problem, and President Trump's approach to the problem as well: a rising tide lifts all boats. Already his administration has taken multiple actions that help the underprivileged. These include
- Criminal Justice Reform.
- Guaranteed enhanced funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities.
- Opportunity Zones.
- Historically low levels of black unemployment (and overall unemployment) via his economic policies around tax reductions, responsible de-regulation, and trade (which, yes, does include quid pro quo tariffs in the short term in order to level the playing field).
- Aggressively pursuing economic development in minority communities.
- Building on previous Opportunity Zones initiative.
- Increasing access to capital for small businesses in black communities.
- Address health care disparities in poor communities.
- Investing substantial sums in minority-serving medical institutions.
- Executive orders to encourage improved policing.
- Meet the most current professional standards on use of force including tactics for de-escalation.
- Encourage pilot programs to have social workers join police on calls.
- Make sure police are well trained, with the best equipment, increasing funding to do so.
- Improved hiring practices for police.
- Renewing the call on Congress to enact school choice.
- Allow choice in poor communities not being well-served by government schools.
I think those are all reasonable, common sense approaches that do not fester a racial divide, but that help the poorer members of society generally, and therefore help blacks disproportionately, which I am all for.
I encourage healthy, reasonable debate on these points in the comment section if you are so inclined. But please, if all you can muster is "Orange Man Bad", and can't address actually policies and proposals as I have done above, then please don't bother.
Some facts and figures backing up some of the claims above.
See the following for data on who pays what in taxes. https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2018-update/
Data on median household income by ethnicity.
 |
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income (based on 2018 US Census Data) |
The statistics on deadly use of force by police is as follows.
 |
| https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/police-brutality-race-numbers Based on 2018 FBI Data |
Given that blacks make up only 13% of the US population, the above numbers seem disproportionately high for that group. But according to FBI data, blacks account for 38% of all violent crime. So as indexed to violent criminals, we see deadly use of force disproportionately smaller for the black population.
The bigger tragedy is the amount of Black-on-Black violent crime. For homicides, blacks commit about 50% of all murders in the US while making up only 13% of the population. However, their victims are disproportionately (81%) black.
 |
| https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls 2016 FBI Homicide data |
While I dont agree with your views, the fact that a post like this is on a spanking blog is a great sign that some sort of change is coming. And I think we can all agree that change is needed. We just tend to disagree, pretty vivaciously, as to how it should be accomplished.
ReplyDeleteYowch! My lefty butt feels sore after that. I can only imagine what it would be like to be across Julie's lap during a Trump campaign speech.
ReplyDeleteHello Julie. I'm a 55 year old married male spanko from Orange County California. I have really enjoyed your blog for some time. I usually don't comment, but wanted to acknowledge your post today. It was spot on. Great job for expressing what I am certain is not a popular point of view in today's cancel culture. OCSwitch
ReplyDeleteThank you for the well thought discussion. I am from the deep southeastern United States which was traditionally mostly Democratic especially during the past prior to the 1970s. For the life of me I cannot understand why minorities trust the Democratic party. The Democratic party uses minorities only for their vote. They constantly tell minorities they are under privileged and try to provide handouts which only results in minorities depending on handouts. Which is exactly what the Democratic party wants. President Trump has made great efforts to help minorities. Minorities should vote Republican. The Republican party is the party of Lincoln who freed the slaves. I feel President Trump has worked hard for all underprivileged citizens and especially minorities should trust him.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your point of view. I think we have to be careful lumping a lot of people into one category though. There are many who identify as Democrats who are genuinely motivated by helping others. I think President Trump is so motivated as well, as are most people.
DeleteHi Tomas,
DeleteDisappointed you chose to take the "Orange Man Bad" approach rather than discussing policy.
Neither mainstream party is the "party of the KKK" anymore. They both disavow. I literally do not care who David Duke supports, and nor should you.
And I certainly hope you have not fallen for the "Fine People Hoax" that has been so thoroughly debunked by now.
The Charlottesville Lie
I actually do care who David Duke supports, because the answer to whether Trump is a racist is "I don't know, but the racists think he is a racist."
DeleteThat's not very logical. That by no means provides any evidence, one way or the other, about Trump. By your reasoning anybody who supports clamping down on illegal immigration and limiting immigration would likely be supported by Duke and therefore would be a racist. Is that really your position?
DeleteRacist:
Deletehttps://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/
Trump lying about our first black President
Deletehttps://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther.html
That's pretty week. You're going back to 1973 where one of his employees likely discriminated against a black person in a tenancy bid in a New York property. Trump said of the charges. “We have never discriminated, and we never would.” Nothing was ever proven in court. Thing was settled. Trump was not even allegedly directly involved. Is that the very best you can do? Puuulease.
DeleteAnd Central Park five? What does their race have to do with it? Trump was pissed with the alleged rapes and murders. Why bring race into it? That's on you.
The bitherism scam? Ha ha ha! You got trolled.
DeleteSure it does. It may not be determinative, but it definitely is evidence. Further, it doesn't really matter whether it is evidence that he *is* a racist. What it shows is that he *appeals* to racists, which is in fact one basis on which rational people can determine which side they want to be on.
DeleteDo you think it would constitute evidence in a court of law? Person B, having never met person A believes without being able to offer evidence that person A has a bad motive. So that's "evidence" that person A has a bad motive? How you twist logic to confirm your bias.
DeleteIf David Duke enjoys your blog, is that evidence that you are a racist, Dan? I mean, your blog *appeals* to racists. It must be a racist blog! Burn the witch!
David Duke is the ONLY republican you can point to that embraces the KKK. The KKK was the enforcement arm of the Democrats from the south in order to enforce Jim Crow laws. Robert Byrd was a self admitted member of the KKK and was in the US Senate for about 50 years and a DEMOCRAT. The Republican party freed the slaves, ended segregation, and extended voting rights to the black community, ALL of which the Democrats opposed. Get your history straight.
DeleteIf David Duke enjoyed my blog would it be *some* evidence that I might be a racist. Sure. It might be flimsy evidence, and it might ultimately be wrong, but it would be some evidence. Under the Federal Rules of Evidence, relevant evidence is evidence that has *any* tendency to make a fact in dispute more or less likely. Further, if David Duke did enjoy my blog, I doubt he would stick around very long, because my responses to comments probably wouldn't make him seem very welcome. Trump, on the other hand, has made people like the terrorist marchers in Charlotte feel very welcome.
DeleteActually the kkk was started in the south when most people were Democrats.
DeleteI believe there are evidentiary rules under most circumstances as to hearsay evidence being inadmissible, which is sort of like what this is. But I feel at this stage I'm arguing with a 2-year-old so let's move on re David Duke.
DeleteI'll quote from Trump's statement at Charlottesvile:
"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally"
Watch here to straighten you out on that: https://youtu.be/NM6k8uNAQBA
Why don't we all agree that neither major party supports the KKK anymore and leave it at that?
DeleteAnd I don't think any Republican's intent is to deny voting rights. Republicans tend to be very rule-abiding, constitution-driven people. They do advocate for voter ID, which I think is a very reasonable requirement to minimize election fraud (we certainly have to show ID to vote in Canada). The idea that blacks cannot get an ID is condescending to the max. I would say that anybody who is somehow unable to get an ID I would not want voting!
2-year-old? Wow. What was that you said about KD's mean streak?
DeleteYou make really good arguments, except that one. Given your penchant, I thought you'd enjoy the reference coming from me, because you know what happens to little boys who act like two-year-olds...
DeleteAs a reader and never until now commenter, it is so incredibly refreshing to find someone who shares similar beliefs in what seems to be a sea of one sided debate. There’s nothing wrong at all with protesting wrongs by the government. You loose me stealing and vandalism though.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think you’ll find anyone questioning the absolutely terrible behavior shown by both the police and rioters/looters and that change needs to happen. The issue I see is that emotion and the growing “give me everything I want right now or I’ll throw a tantrum” is overshadowing the issue. We have reached a point, in my opinion, where the kids who were never told “no” as children are old enough to try to make sure the world never spanks them and tells them no.
Finally, no matter how pertinent the statistics are, they mostly fall on deaf ears. No one, especially politicians here, will ever point out the statistics you’ve provided. They’d rather lie and take someone’s vote on the never fulfilled promise that they will be the one to fix it. The sad thing is that President Trump will never be recognized for what he has actually done for the black community, only for a perception created by his opponents. The man isn't perfect but he isn't pure evil either.
Your comments about who pays taxes reflect only the income tax. People in the bottom half of the income spectrum pay payroll taxes (FICA) and sales taxes, and through their rent they pay real estate taxes. And they end up paying a higher precentage of their incomes on taxes than the people in the top 10% of incomes. And then consider the bought-and-paid-for tax loopholes of the super-rich, such as the hedge fund managers' carried interest loophole which is protected in the tax code by both Republican and Democratic politicians. Your post is not a partisan screed, and I commend you for that. We disagree about a number of things, but we could sit down and have a discussion about them.
ReplyDeleteYou make a really good point about needing to get a better statistic around who pays what in taxes. My broader point is that I am for progressive taxation in general, and we can quibble around how progressive it should be, but if you go too far you kill the golden goose.
DeleteGood response. And regarding your "Orange Man Bad" gibe (deliberately provocative, perhaps?), I would remind you that you referred to the President on May 19th as "the God Emperor Trump." I'm not a so-called lefty, and you're not a so-called wingnut. You and I both support capitalism and deplore crony capitalism and undue concentation of wealth. We disagree about the current state of affairs regarding both of those (as well as what policies would best ameliorate the situation, maybe, but thaty remains to be explored, since we haven't had that conversation). Looking at historical economic data, a rising tide lifted all boats from 1950 through about 1990, and since then we've seen the greatest concentration of wealth in this country since the 1920s. Thanks for taking the time and care to offer a thoughtful response to my comment. BTW, as you might guess, I'm not a big fan of either of the current major political parties in the US.
DeleteAnd I'll use your own source to re4commend a look at the overall tax burden on Americans, since most searches result in only the income tax figures you cited, here's what the Tax Foundation posted about the payroll tax burden: https://taxfoundation.org/payroll-income-tax-burden/
DeleteThanks. I'll have a look. I certainly don't like any form of regressive taxation. In fact, I'm a total UBI fan.
DeleteThere is no such thing as a "tax loophole", they are "tax laws". Loophole is word used to make people believe that someone is cheating to lower their tax burden and that isn't true. Are politicians corrupt? Yes. Do wealthy corporations bribe them to get favorable laws passed? Yes. Is it fair? NO. That is why we should have limited government.
DeleteWell, i would say there are "loopholes' in the sense that you can legally accomplish something that the law never intended and that is abusive of the tax system. But tax authorities are quick to shut those things down, and in Canada we also have the catch-all "General Anti-Avoidance Rule" which says that any transaction that is solely motivated to save tax and has no business reason is subject to the higher tax.
DeleteBut in general I agree. Most tax saving schemes were put there for a reason to advance some social policy. E.g., leftists love the ones that encourage investment in "green energy" for example.
Tucker Carlson is a rich kid with a step mother who is an heiress, Carlson is a libertarian who acts as if everyone else is as rich as his parents are. He has also lost advertisers this week for racist comments and been taken to task by the rest of the media time and again, in short he is disaffected .
ReplyDeleteThe unemployment relief that was felt for 2 years is nothing more than a trillion dollars borrowed from the future being gobbled up by the rich.
Until you cross the St Lawrence river or somehow get South of Lake Ontario, you wont be able to see it for yourself in a way appreciates the nuances. The picture of the President and the secretary of State and Secretary of Defense standing if front of a church with him holding a bible was made by the police gassing and beating civilians to make way for their photo op.
1000 people per year are being killed by the police here, some in their sleep as victim of wrong addresses.
We have a corporate prison system that generates half a billion dollars per year to very large companies and 97% of the incarcerated have not had a trial but taken plea agreements because they have been threatened with decades long sentences vs temporary slavery for nothing more than being accused of a crime.
you are not a statistician these facts and figures are little more than a cherry picked book report for Fox news. 1000 people per year are shot and killed by the police , more Caucasian than African American but more African American by percentage of race, and there is systemic racism that is in the very institutions themselves it is very complicated and inextricably tied to the justice system. the racism is not the only issue, If the deaths by race were all racially equivalent there would still be an outrageous number of people per year shot and killed by the police in the United States.
Police Unions are powerful in the United states 25% of all fired police officers are reinstated to active duty and many just change departments and go from town to town or state to state after abusing their positions.
Check out the documentary 13th on Netflix for a view of systemic racism in the states .
Trying to parse through the emotion in your post. Yes the world needs improvement. Let's join together and get that done. I was clear police brutality is a problem that needs to be addressed. I agree that the plea bargain system is a shambles. I agree that a form of "crony justice" is in place to fill a for-profit prison system. I agree that because blacks are disproportionately engaged in crime they are therefore disproportionately impacted by those things. I also said this culture of "got your back" that is part and parcel of police unions has to go as well. I think we agree on more than we disagree! Do you think the administration's enacted policies and policy proposals I mention are at least a step in the right direction? Were these problems present in previous administrations as well, and did things get better or worse under them?
Delete"I agree that because blacks are disproportionately engaged in crime they are therefore disproportionately impacted by those things."
DeleteJulie, the problem with this statistic both here and in your post is that you seem to assuming (or ignoring) that the number of police encounters is likely itself a product of entrenched discrimination. If you face discrimination day in and day out for generations in job opportunities, housing, criminal sentencing, etc. then, yeah, you probably are going to have more encounters with the police. You're right that poverty is the root of many of the problems you acknowledge exist, but you don't seem to acknowledge that the poverty itself results to a significant extent from systemic discrimination.
If what you mean by "sysemic discrimination" is that things in the past still have a bearing on today, I wholeheartedly agree. That's what I meant by the cycle of poverty and how it's so important to put forward policies that people out of it (such as UBI, for example). If you mean that society is systematically discriminating based on the colour of your skin nowadays, I will have to disagree.
DeleteNo, anonymous, what I am saying is that poverty often leaves to crime, and that disparate sentencing leads to higher incarceration which leads to family breakdown and all other sorts of problems. There's nothing very controversial about those notions. Trump himself brags about accomplishing sentencing reform because the old system had such a disproportionate impact on blacks.
DeleteI agree with that, Dan. It's part of the vicious cycle of poverty I refer to in my post.
DeleteHey Anonymous12 June 2020 at 15:13, you wrote that
Delete"Tucker Carlson is a rich kid with a step mother who is an heiress"
So how does that make Carlson different from Anderson Cooper (a Vanderbilt heir - talking REAL money there)?
HANG IN THERE JULIE - YOU ARE GIVING BETTER THAN YOU ARE GETTING.
Thank you Carl. I am hoping we are all getting more educated and generating new ideas from the exchange. That would be "winning" for me!
DeleteAs to Tucker and Anderson, I'm happy to listen to anybody who has well researched good ideas!
Well thought out and presented. You are an amazing woman.
ReplyDeleteJulie,
ReplyDeleteYou are sooo Canadian. Speak up !!! stand up !!! I am an immigrant. Came here as a young boy, didn't speak a word of English. My schoolmates embraced me, the community embraced my family. My first job out of College was for a fortune 500 company.
I made waves, for 2 years I had swastikas left on my desk. I had had enough, submitted my resignation. My exit interview....Chris.. you are a Nazi ie German so you can't complain.
That is reality !!! I take the heat but not in anyway like people of colour. Two of my kids are black, not mixed, black.. they live that !!!
Fathers, grandfathers, brothers, stand up !!! Protect !!!
Sorry Julie, this is just striking a little too close to home.
Chris
Hi Chris - I know it's an emotional issue for you. But I am not saying racism does not exist, or prejudice based on physical appearance, or sex, or sexual orientation, or height, or weight, or all sorts of other stupid things is not an issue. It certainly is. If you point out an actual instance of it, I will be right there fighting with you against it.
DeleteJulie - it's interesting that you, as a Canadian, are so knowledgeable of, and interested in, US politics. Perhaps that's because things are so good in Canada, your own politics are boring? I've heard that Justin Trudeau's hair length is a "thing" up there ... ;-)
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting such a thoughtful article. My main disagreement is with the "rising tide lifts all boats" theory, also known a "trickle down economics" - or, as George H.W. Bush correctly called it "voodoo economics."
The "rising tide" theory has been tested several times in the US and failed each time - most recently, the 2017 tax cut the Republicans rammed through, with the rationale that it would MORE than pay for itself with increased capital investment by businesses. Keep in mind, about 2/3 of the roughly $1.5 TRILLION tax cut went to corporations and wealthy individuals with tax cuts that were largely PERMANENT, while the rest of us got tax cuts that expire in 10 or fewer years. The predicted tax revenue increase never arrived and thus the US deficit (annual shortfall) and debt (obligations issued to fund shortfalls) both increased as a result.
Oh, and the recent COVID-19 recovery legislation in the US included a number of RETROACTIVE tax credits that benefitted real estate developers and other special interest groups.
If you want another example of the failed "magic of huge tax cuts," here's a Wikipedia article on former Gov. Sam Brownback and his failed tax cut experiment in Kansas - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_experiment
I also recall Warren Buffett's famous comment that his secretary paid more in income taxes as a percentage of income than he did, and he said that was not fair. I don't know how the Canadian income tax system works - however, in the US, lower rates are applied to income from interest, dividends, and capital gains, as opposed to income from working, and that's why his secretary pays a higher percentage of earnings than he does.
I recently heard (on an NPR podcast) or read (likely in the NYTimes) a stunning statistic - there are NO counties in ALL of the US where the Federal minimum wage (currently, $7.25, effective July 24, 2009 - see: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage ) provides a LIVING WAGE.
For those unfamiliar with the living wage concept, it calculates the amount required to provide a BASIC level of food, shelter, clothing, and other essentials. There is NO FAT in a living wage - for example, it is not meant to cover dining out, going to the movies, or other activities most of us do and enjoy.
MIT calculates living wage amounts for every county in the US - read more about what is and is NOT covered by a living wage (at: https://livingwage.mit.edu/pages/about ) and then explore your own state and county (at: https://livingwage.mit.edu/ ).
My prescription for MANY social issues in the US is simple - pay employees a living wage, make tax rates the same on earned income and investment income, and retroactively clawback special interest tax giveaways.
Julie, I'm happy to take your leftist spanking now, as long as you're willing to let me put you over my knee and give you your rightist spanking, too!!
:-)
Best,
-T.
Great response!
DeleteI don't equate "rising tide" only with tax cuts. It certainly is an open question if tax cuts in particular help the poor. However, I generally feel anything that stimulates the economy is good for the poor. I think it's sensible that tax cuts do this as opposed to govt spending. I think that tax incentives to promote societal goods, such as investing in others' businesses, is fine. I.e., like getting a tax break when donating to a charity.
With minimum wage, you probably can anticipate my response that it can have unintended negative consequences (such as accelerating the rise of the robots). I would prefer letting the market set wages and supplement with a UBI.
Minimum wage laws should be abolished. There are only 2 people that should be involved in determining a wage, the person paying the wage and the person receiving it.
DeleteIn my state McDonalds (a minimum wage job right?) id hiring at 12.35 an hour. Maybe not a "living wage" but that isn't the employers responsibly. It is the responsibility of the individual to learn skills that will provide him/her with the wage they desire.
Generally agree, but as society becomes increasingly automated and more and more of the jobs are being automated it will cause a huge problem. Half the population has an IQ under 100, by definition. How are they to survive? I am a firm believer in the inevitability of some sort of Universal Basic Income.
DeleteJulie - one other thing. I'd be interested in knowing how some of the US stats you cited compare with Canadian stats.
ReplyDeleteI imagine your tax rates are higher, your health care costs are lower, your minimum wage is higher, and you have fewer uninsured or poor people.
I could be wrong - those are just my general impressions of the Great White North.
Best,
-T.
I think income tax rates are roughly similar depending on state/province (top marginal rate just above 50%).
DeleteHealth care spending is very high in the US. For what you pay in Medicaide and Medicare alone, you could cover everybody if you paid per capita what Canada pays.
On the other hand, most of the healthcare innovation comes out of the US because of the profit motive. And wait times in Canada can be brutal for non-critical treatment, but the system bends over backwards for critical situations regardless of income level.
Some hybrid of the two would be good.
Thank you for this post. Some people try to give the impression that all kink people are leftists.
ReplyDeleteOK, first off, you have rightfully discredited the "Bad Orange Man" arguments but you have welcomed the "you are so correct" comments which by the definition of your terms are just as useless to furthering the debate. They offer nothing of substance but praise and agreement and yet you find that OK but not the opposite? Well, no fear, you'll get neither from me.
ReplyDeleteFirst, your FBI data chart is nice.....but irrelevant. No one here is talking about the use of deadly force. Police have dangerous jobs where they encounter some pretty bad people of all colors.....and some of those people pose a threat that necessitates deadly force. The issue here is inappropriate or unjustified deadly force. Where is you chart of that broken down by race? Similarly Carlson's argument suffers the same flaw. Apples and oranges.
How about incarceration rates "per capita"? Not useless total raw numbers but how many white people and how many black people end up in prison in the US for the same crime per capita? The ratio is 6:1. A Black person who is convicted is 6 times more likely to end up in prison than a white person who is just as guilty.
As for economics? I agree and so do a lot of more outspoken Black leaders......but not enough. But if you talk to Black people who have managed a degree of success through hard work and a bit of luck, they will say that the 'victimhood mentality' is definitely a hindrance to the Black community. Spike Lee is very much about Black entrepreneurship. But this is a separate issue. A valid one, and one the far left tries to avoid.
Similarly Black voting patterns are atrocious. For a group suffering the ills they do, their inconsistent voting record is abysmal and contributes to their detriment. Imagine if "the Black vote" was a solid contingent to be relied upon as opposed to something whimsical that must be courted and enticed like a bored and reluctant female.
But this is about systemic racism and I as a white male who has lived here since my birth in 1959 and lived through the race riots when my father had to cross lines to go to work in Newark during the riots in the 60's, I DO have firsthand experience with the reality of racism.....though not from the 'receiving end'. And that's what this is about.
I wonder, as a successful white female living in Canada, who gets her race sensitivity training from Tucker Carlson, how well equipped you are to understand something that even white Americans struggle with? I have had enough interaction with Black people to know what they complain about is real. As an HR manager years ago, I had to call the local police to have them stop harassing a Black worker of mine who did not have a car and had to walk to work early in the morning.
I have had Black friends tell me of the difficulty getting a cab in NYC. And because I have had NUMEROUS police friends and acquaintances, shall I tell you how many racist comments from cops I have heard over my lifetime? Don't ask, because I can't begin to count them.
So don't say this isn't about racism, and that it's about economics. THIS particular issue is precisely about racism. Which is alive and well in the USA. The economic argument is complex and we would probably share a lot of common ground on that one, but it is irrelevant to this topic and what is currently going on.
As for Trump's record:
............
A kind word is always appreciated, so I appreciate it.
DeleteIf you don't like the data I was able to find, where is your data backing your claims?
We agree that per capita blacks are more impacted. I claim that the root of it is because of more criminality, and once that is addressed the other problems clear up.
You make some other good points about the roots of the problem.
The rest of your comment is basically "shut up white girl, I know people who have said things," which is not persuasive.
So, in praising the praise as valid support and discounting the criticism as worthless, you are NOT having a debate, but a one-sided Trump rally. Too bad he's not running in Canada. I certainly wish he was.
DeleteAnd do you understand "per capita"? It means the relative size of each group is factored out and instead you look at the numbers equally. So if 5 white people commit a crime and 100 Blacks commit a crime, the result is still the incarceration rate for each, not the total number for each.
While "shut up white girl" would hardly be an effective argument for most things, when discerning the experiences of a group you're not in, it becomes relevant. I've heard women say they hate "mansplaining". What else are you and Tucker doing other than "whitesplaining"? Things here are developing more across racial lines because white people are finally beginning to LISTEN rather than re-explain racism to the victims of it. So it doesn't really matter whether you find it persuasive because the Black population isn't going to change their perception of their own reality for what a white woman in Canada thinks.
I'm starting to wonder what the point of this post was? Was it to explain that a white cop knelt on a Black person's neck until they died in terms of economics? Or just a "Trump is great" post in retaliation for all the "Orange Man Bad" posts?
Incarceration per capita? Your numbers may be correct, I don't know, but my first question is how many of the "6 times more likely to be incarcerated had previous offenses as compared to the white guy? can you answer that? It is relevant.
DeleteKind words are always nice. Opposing arguments are always nice. "Shut up bitch" and Orange Man Bad arguments NOT based on any argument is what I've been filtering.
DeleteYes I understand per capita. Do you understand you have a nasty streak when you argue?
I have never criticized "mansplaining". I value all perspectives.
You do not do a good job actually reading, understanding, and engaging with my actual words and arguments. You argue against some strawman you make up in your head, imagining I have views I have not ever expressed. Please use my actual words as a reference when arguing, and I will happily defend or elaborate.
KDPierre, as a white Canadian male, I can tell you that racial prejudice in policing and racial inequality in sentencing is as big an issue in Canada as in the USA, but we Canadians tend to flatter ourselves as being less racist than the USA. Like the USA we have had a “war on drugs”, and that war has disproportionately affected black and indigenous people. When I was a teenager, some of my white friends were busted for possession of marijuana. Their punishment was having their parents come into the station to get them before being let off with a warning and no criminal record. Meanwhile, lots of black and indigenous people have been incarcerated and criminalized for the same offence. One form of anti-indigenous police brutality that seems to be a Canadian specialty is driving the person out of town when it is 30 below and dumping them at the side of the road when they are inadequately dressed for the weather. In extreme conditions, that has pretty much the same effect as lynching.
DeleteWhile I know of the anecdote you are talking about, and I vigorously condemn it, have you any stats on if there is a greater systemic problem across policing in Canada?
DeleteCriminal Justice Reform....... OK I'll give you that though I haven't seen any numbers reflecting any improvement statistics.
ReplyDeleteGuaranteed enhanced funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities..........I would need proof of that. His record on funding anything but big business bailout and the military is not particularly impressive.
Opportunity Zones. ......Those have been around for years.
Historically low levels of black unemployment (and overall unemployment) via his economic policies around tax reductions, responsible de-regulation, and trade (which, yes, does include quid pro quo tariffs in the short term in order to level the playing field)..... you might want to fact check this one. These stats began under Obama.....who I was no big fan of, but you have give credit to where it's due.
In addition to this, and in response to the current crisis, he announced a four point response:
Aggressively pursuing economic development in minority communities.
Building on previous Opportunity Zones initiative.
Increasing access to capital for small businesses in black communities.
Address health care disparities in poor communities.
Investing substantial sums in minority-serving medical institutions.
Executive orders to encourage improved policing.
Meet the most current professional standards on use of force including tactics for de-escalation.
Encourage pilot programs to have social workers join police on calls.
Make sure police are well trained, with the best equipment, increasing funding to do so.
Improved hiring practices for police.
Renewing the call on Congress to enact school choice.
Allow choice in poor communities not being well-served by government schools.
School choice? You think that's a Black issue? LOL. Anyway, let me just say that among a large number of Black friends and acquaintances, I know of not one Trump supporter. So I am suspicious of his record in helping them.
But, nice try. If FOX ever needs a Canadian anchor who can alternate with kinky lifestyle segments, you have it clinched.
Historically black colleges. You can google it, you know. Here I did it for you: https://apnews.com/c4834e48841d97c5a93312b1bf75302a
DeleteLikewise opportunity zones. 2017. https://eig.org/opportunityzones
Yes, recovery from 2008 crash started under Obama, but had a huge kick as Trump took office and continued at a pace far surpassing Obama until COVID. Really hard to argue that any other way.
And yes, school choice is most important to poorer communities who cannot afford to send their kids to private schools as do the rich. Competition is good.
As to black Trump supporters as friends, how many Trump supporters are you friends with period? None? You sure make it awkward for folks to admit it to you!
I have friends who support Trump but would be lying to say that they are a majority. In fact most of my friends are Democrats that I have to argue with over THAT side's nonsense. The friends who like Trump however are fairly nice people who just happen to only listen to FOX news rather than a blend of media sources. And as far as me making Trump support admission awkward? LOL. Boo Hoo. I've been bombarded by hateful arch-conservative, crap with name-calling and half-truths and full bore lies that I have little sympathy when the shoe is on the other foot. Besides, the originators of the term "snowflake" couldn't POSSIBLY be so frail so as not to be able to handle a counter-opinion, could they?
DeleteAlso, you do realize that there are plenty of conservatives who, rather than dwell up Trump's ass, prefer someone more knowledgeable and less narcissistic as their representative?
I'm not sure where the "huge kick" notion comes from. Looking at actual economic performance, GDP growth under Trump in 2019 was almost exactly that under Obama in 2015. BUT, Trump got his numbers by goosing the national debt at 3x the rate of growth in Obama's second term. Basically, he pushed a tax cut that was a sugar high, yet still barely managed to squeak out the same GDP growth as under Obama.
Deletekdp - in my experience the ones who lack a blend of media perspectives are those on the left, as they would NEVER tune into Fox. Whereas those on the right, while they may favour Fox, are inevitably bombarded by leftists views everywhere in the mainstream media and even their social media bubbles are persistently jostled with leftists views due to the actions of the "woke" tech companies. The same cannot be said for the left. Their bubbles are firmly intact!
DeleteDan - The huge kick is a reflection that a very high growth rate is easy when coming off a huge crash such as 2008, but that same percentage increase is much more difficult to sustain 8 years out from it. Did not Obama's administration famously declare that 3% GDP growth would require a "magic wand". See https://youtu.be/6g10WhdC2ag. The facts are that GDP growth was at 1.5% in President Obama’s final six full quarters in office, whereas growth doubled to 3% during President Trump’s first six full quarters. It's kind of clear why as well. Lowering taxes, cutting regulations, and better trade deals. You would kind of expect that, no?
DeleteIt's late, and I don't really know enough about US internal policies to get into a serious discussion about the topic, to I'll confine my comment to the following:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that capitalism is the best system we have so far found for increasing the living standard for everyone. Yes, the people at the top ends up being a LOT better off than those at the very bottom, but everyone do end up better off. If the income balance becomes too extreme, however, it does create some other problems.
I don't know enough about Trump, nor the details of his policies to properly debate them, but I'll be honest and say that I'm not a fan of what I have seen, heard, and read about his behaviour, statements etc. From a global perspective, I do not believe that he is very good for the world or the US. I find that the man lacks class, and in general lacks most of the qualities I'd normally associate with what is supposed to be the head of the western world and democratic society. But the US chose him for whatever reason, through their version of a democratic election, so the US and the world have to live with that choice. His supporters will hope he gets another 4 years, is opponents will hope he doesn't.
In any case, nice and sober post Julie. (I didn't watch the videos, so right now I have no oppinions on those.)
And with that I'll round off and head to bead. It's 01.15am, and my kid's liable to get up at 07.20 or thereabouts.
Thank you for your comments, Kyrel. A lot of people don't like Trump's style. I personally find it refreshing, hyperbole and everything, and he has a vicious sense of humour. But ultimately judge him on actions and results against a fair point of comparison. I find his accomplishments particularly striking considering the attacks he's been under from the left, the media, and the entrenched classes in Washington, not the least of which was a 3 year investigation of collusion which was shown to be baseless.
DeleteRogering here. I despise Trump,Biden,Clinton,etc.I lived in Canada for a while Julie and while its a fairer society then the United States, it is far from Nirvana if your a First Nation person. And that is at the heart of the problem in Canada and the States: Blatant Racism and the theft, slavery, violence meted out on the dispossessed and illegally snatched.
ReplyDeleteFour hundred years and counting ..
Is there any part of the world where indigenous people were not displaced?
DeleteProbably not Julie, but that does not make it right and overwhelmingly it has been white people doing the displacing,
DeleteThe conqueror do the displacing. It happened just as much in Africa amongst the tribes as anywhere else.
DeleteI have with a message of historical reassurance to those who may feel all is lost and we are doomed to collapse. If we survived 1968, we'll get through this.
ReplyDeleteIn 1968:
- Martin Luther King was murdered.
- Bobby Kennedy (who was running for President and had a good chance at the nomination) was murdered.
- The Vietnam War was tearing people apart, especially with the launch of the Tet Offensive.
- Lyndon Johnson had to invoke the Insurrection Act THREE times to suppress national race riots.
- Segregation was still a thing, despite the Supreme Court ruling years earlier.
- The 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago was a violent disaster.
- North Korea forcibly seized a US naval research ship.
- A US nuclear sub sank without any explanation, killing all 99 sailors.
- The Zodiac Killer was on the loose.
- Oh, and there was a flu pandemic that year, too. The Hong Kong Flu. At least 1 million died worldwide.
Things may look very, very tough because we can see them more clearly in real time with the Internet, but we have been through much worse through our history when we had much more to truly to be divided over. The country was united in the belief that what happened to Floyd was an outrage, the divisions happened when the anarchist assholes started pillaging and burning neighborhoods and trying to gin up a race war.
And therein lies one of the biggest issues: if whites and blacks are not at each others' throats, a lot of people stand to lose a lot of power, money, and influence. It is in their interest to make people on both sides angry and fearful.
Hi Julie, I have followed your blog for a number of years. I appreciate what you have to say about our president. I think Trumps biggest problem is that he is not a politician. He is a Billionaire businessman who says what is on his mind and doesn't pull any punches. He is a counter puncher, as long as you are cordial to him he will do the same for you. If you attack him, his family or his friends he will attack back. He is trying to bring this country back to its greatness when a person could find a job after graduating high school in most factories in our country. I was one of those people back in the 70's. I am so proud of what he has accomplished in the United States, check out what has been accomplished since he took office. Also he is the only President that kept his campaign promises as far as I can remember.
ReplyDeleteI used to be what you use to call a President Kennedy Democrat. He was the last good one we had. Now today the Democrat party has gone Socialist Left. I can no longer be apart of any of their beliefs. Just listen to the crap they spew, Like AOC and her group. I can't believe the stuff that they teach these kids in college. It's unbelievable the socialist and Marxist ideas they teach these kids.
I was also appalled at the sight of George Floyd being killed. It breaks my heart that this goes on in this day and time. I was a firefighter and like all professions there are good people and bad but you cant lump them all together.
No one mentions the 800 police and others that were hurt during the riots(peaceful Protests) that happened or the retired police captain in Missouri that was murdered trying to defend a friends property. Or the other 19 that were killed during this.
I voted for Obama because he said he would be open and transparent and then he shoved Obamacare down our throats causing our insurance premiums to double. If we are blessed with a democrat that can't remember where he is we are all in trouble. On another subject the thoughts about minimum wage. When I was growing up minimum wage jobs were used for kids and college kids during breaks, they were never meant to be used for living wages. We have jobs in factories Like Caterpillar that can't find help because this younger generation won't work or can't pass drug tests. I could go on and on but I won't. Its so refreshing to see someone on the net that has some sense and doesn't always listen to the Fake News. It's no wonder people dont know whats going on in this world as even yahoo news doesn't print the truth. I don't always agree with everything the President says but he is just a man and not a politician. Again thank you for all you have said, you are a very bright woman. P.S. I like it better when you are the dominant and not the sub. Take care, Steve
Thank you Steve. Well said comment.
DeleteI switch back and forth according to whim, but have been spanking my husband more lately. Will surely blog on that soon!
Mistress Julie, I often consider what a fortunate man david is. I've enjoyed reading your submissive adventures, but I'm very much looking forward to stories about Strict Julie and the righteous punishments she renders. I've decided to take the plunge and ask my wife to spank me. She already lets me lick her ass, which is pretty submissive. lars
DeleteExcellent! Send her to my advice for wives post!
DeleteI think we agree some things, and disagree on others, but I have to start by saying I appreciate the spirit in which the post is written. It is meant to encourage intelligent discourse and discussion. Too many times all I see right now are arguments filled with logical fallacies and no actual conversation, just people yelling into the void.
ReplyDeleteMy basic premise that I wrote was that the you seem to approach two different subjects in your post, but the first is mainly the economy, capitalism, socialism, and their ramifications. I wholeheartedly agree that the root cause of many of the issues we see is actually poverty. Strange how many things are fixed with money isn’t it? No matter what economic system you look at, all have flaws, and some of them are just highlighted at the moment, especially when exacerbated by things that aren’t true capitalism, like bailouts subsidies, and military and government contracts (ugh, Cheney, don’t please.). In a truly capitalist system, dying business is allowed to do so because it creates innovation, change, and growth. These don’t happen when there are bailouts or monopolies.
However the second item touched on, less so than the economy, is the issues of race and policing. I think we’d agree a bit less here. I think the items you brought up that have been positive for communities in need, are absolutely that. Positive things. They are needed and have value for everyone. There is no argument that the current administration has done nothing at all to aid people of color.
The main issue i would argue is that it’s a bit of a Red Herring argument to bring up those while not mentioning the continuous stream of racist dog whistles Trump puts out that exacerbate the issue and increase racial tension and divide.
For example, he just yesterday made his first reelection rally in Tulsa OK. He also chose to do so on Juneteenth, a day many people of color celebrate as the end of slavery. He didn’t choose a battleground state, somewhere he will need votes, or have it as a stop on a tour. It’s his first rally, and is at the site of the single worst incident of racial violence in American history. On that day.
He’s not dumb, it’s a conscious choice he made, and even if he didn’t know, someone in the room did. There’s a hundred examples; the difference in his reaction to white vs black protestors two weeks apart, “shithole countries”, telling for US senators to “go back to their own countries”.
It’s hard to reconcile those things with the ideals we say our society is built on, especially from the person who is supposed to be a leader of people.
I honestly think he’d have a much better chance at reelection if someone had taken his phone away four years ago. Or if they just proof read his tweets.
In the end, any of this has to start with our ability to converse about issues, learn, and compromise. We can’t be so entrenched in our own thoughts that we refuse to listen to another idea. Changing your mind when presented with new information isn’t a weakness, it’s called wisdom. There’s more opinions than just our own, and I can appreciate when someone brings facts and data to a discussion, rather than ignorance and rhetoric to an argument. Only one of those situations a can be productive.
We clearly agree on a lot.
DeleteWhere we disagree is you hearing all these "racist dog whistles" that many others, including many in the black community, do not see. Instead of having such a finely tuned ear searching for these elusive dog whistles, why not take Trump at face value, words and actions, and judge him on those? It seems more reasonable to me.
Hot off the presses from a Trump tweet just now:
Delete"We had previously scheduled our #MAGA Rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for June 19th – a big deal. Unfortunately, however, this would fall on the Juneteenth Holiday. Many of my African American friends and supporters have reached out to suggest that we consider changing the date out of respect for this Holiday, and in observance of this important occasion and all that it represents. I have therefore decided to move our rally to Saturday, June 20th, in order to honor their requests. We have already had ticket requests in excess of 200,000 people. I look forward to seeing everyone in Oklahoma!"
Julie, I know your taking a lot of crap for this post, but I am so happy and proud of you. We ALL, need to be able to speak our mind and opinion without fearing retribution, and posts like this, on platforms like this, are perfect. I agree with 80% of your post and respect the other 20%! :) also, for anyone on here giving Julie shit for this post think about this...many of us are on here for the reality, kink, bdsm aspects...a huge portion of those items is respect and understanding. If you respect a sub during a scene then you can respect a person for having a different opinion then you...to put it frankly, grow up and stop bitching just because you disagree with someone.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Julie, for this post and keep up the amazing work!!!
Thank you! Lovely sentiments. I don't mind respectful disagreement at all. I never ascribe motive beyond what is clearly stated and think the best of people's intentions. Out of respectful debate comes solutions that work and we can all get behind. Compromise!
DeleteWow Julie - thanks and congrats for a brave post! You knew the mob would be howling, but you said your piece. Braver than taking any punishment!
ReplyDeleteCK
FYI. I'm moderating the comments more heavily starting from now. Any civil comment that makes reasonable policy or fact points I will gladly let through. If all you can manage is an ad-hominem rant I'll delete it.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that in addition to the majority of the posted above comments and differing viewpoints, which are thought out and presented considerately for the most part, you are surely getting a good dose of those ad-hominem rants as well. It seems to be more and more the norm.
DeleteI too have found in the past few years that all too often the response of many leftists, when encountering opinions and comments contrary to theirs, is delivered in the form of tirade and personal verbal assault. It often includes (usually with little or no meaningful or original content) helpings of name calling and other assorted hurled insults and rudeness. And is usually delivered with an excessively high degree of agitation (shouting-down) with the end goal of intimidation. Bullying. As a proud conservative and Trump supporter I've been on the receiving end of these rants quite a few times.
The intensity of vehemence ( hatred?) way too often expressed still surprises me. Actually, it saddens me a bit when someone loses their shit like that. And I also don't understand how someone-whether they know me or not- feels it's OK to interact with me in that manner. It's especially irritating when it happens in a face to face situation. But I guess it's acceptable to them in that it can sometimes effectively shut down the expression of a differing opinion. And the sheer volume of this nasty behavior can overwhelm as well.
However, I don't think these tactics ever really change a person's opinions or feelings. They certainly don't work on me. Thanks for standing up and speaking out as you have today.
vic
Yes, I've had to block a lot of stuff, which I hate given free speech and all, but "shut up racist bitch" does not add to the conversation! :-) (but does turn me on a bit... oh my)
DeleteEven a lot of the better responses here usually fail to address my points head on, do turn unnecessarily personal and nasty, and argue against positions they imagine I hold. They justify uncivil behaviour because they claim the absolute moral high ground and it's ok to "punch a Nazi" or some such nonsense. They don't realize that is what seeds division. There are very few people who wish harm on others. Everybody has a good motive. Both sides need to understand that.
You are well informed and have resisted being swept along with those who are not well informed. Cheers, Bogey
ReplyDeleteJulie, Although I don't agree with all of your observations and opinions, I do respect them, and I believe
ReplyDeletesome of your thoughts have merit. Unfortunately, we don't have the social safety net here in the states as you do in Canada, and I believe capitalism has gone too far in one direction, here, leaving millions disenfranchised. Additionally, our political system is at a point to which civil dialogue and compromise is almost impossible. I have deep concerns about my country's future. I can only hope that our leaders will consider all of their countrymen, not just political donors or special interests. Keep expressing your thoughts, Julie. That's what a democracy is all about. lars
I don't think things are much better anywhere else in the world, either, and in a lot of places considerably worse. Count our blessings, be grateful, and continue trying to do better.
Delete2016 Chicago, 75% who were murdered were blacks. 71% of those arrested for these murders were black. Since Black lives matter, should this not be part of the conversation. Blacks killing blacks.
ReplyDeleteI was surprise to see this topic, not against, excellent blog, but I wonder if this could cause you more headaches than it worth. Jack
A giant problem for sure. Erosion of religion, family values, respect for authority, personal accountability impacts us all and is deadly in urban inner cities.
DeleteMs SJ, thanks for the thoughtful post. I’m a data driven guy and I appreciate your references.
ReplyDeleteBut,
There’s so much antipathy and so little trust between the police and the black community in the US. Yet neither is monolithic.
The level of distrust carries over to all black people. Of my three kids, my daughter has several close black friends now in their late twenties. They all have stories of police harassment way beyond what her white friends have. I dint have research but believe this to be the case across the country.
Spank me if I’m wrong, or even if I’m not,
Rosco
I don't think you're at all wrong, Rosco. With violent crime rates so high amongst that visible minority the police will consciously and unconsciously profile, I am sure. And some are just assholes. I am always extra polite when stopped by cops, were those young blacks also you think? And your anecdotes do not seem borne out in the stats when compared against crime rate (though disproportionately so per capita, for sure)
DeleteJulie - stats on NYC's stop and frisk show significant bias against ppeople of color, even after controlling for other factors - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-frisk_in_New_York_City
DeleteStop and frisk was also implemented AFTER crime rates dropped significantly - https://images.app.goo.gl/aMMduYyRoCicH7Uq7
Not sure where Rosco lives, yet NYC's experience illustrates his point.
Best,
-T.
I think you must be confusing me for somebody who believes in violating civil rights via stop and frisk? Wasn't that Bloomberg's thing?
DeleteBut engaging more with your stop and frisk comment, the second link is very misleading in its use of scaling. Here is a better view of the same graph that shows it did move the needle: https://images.app.goo.gl/yHwkDDYLxfrxb8DU7
And here is what Bloomberg had to say about it, from your source.
"Ninety-five percent of murders- murderers and murder victims fit one M.O. You can just take the description, Xerox it, and pass it out to all the cops. They are male, minorities, 16-25. That’s true in New York, that’s true in virtually every city (inaudible). And that’s where the real crime is. You’ve got to get the guns out of the hands of people that are getting killed. So you want to spend the money on a lot of cops in the streets. Put those cops where the crime is, which means in minority neighborhoods. So one of the unintended consequences is people say, ‘Oh my God, you are arresting kids for marijuana that are all minorities.’ Yes, that’s true. Why? Because we put all the cops in minority neighborhoods. Yes, that’s true. Why do we do it? Because that’s where all the crime is. And the way you get the guns out of the kids’ hands is to throw them up against the wall and frisk them… And then they start… ‘Oh I don’t want to get caught.’ So they don’t bring the gun. They still have a gun, but they leave it at home."
Julie - No, I would never assume you're a person who believes in violating civil rights. I was merely citing stop-and-frisk as an example of what Rosco's daughters white friends are likely to experience - more scrutiny from police than white persons, merely because of the color of their skin.
DeleteAbout your chart and mine - they both are accurate. Mine shows a longer time horizon predating and including stop-and-frisk, while yours shows the stop-and-frisk period. Yours shows the details from that period. Mine shows the steepest drop in violent crimes occurring prior to stop-and-frisk, while yours shows a continued, though incremental, reduction in shootings and murders.
I'm not sure when Michael Bloomberg made that statement, though he certainly took heat for it during when he was a candidate for president in 2019/2020. He was mayor of NYC from Jan 1, 2002 through Jan 1, 2014 (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bloomberg#Mayor_of_New_York_City ). The chart I cited appears to show stop-and-frisk peaking around 2011, then dropping dramatically the rest of his term. I believe I heard that Bloomberg was getting inaccurate reports of stop-and-frisk's efficacy from the top police leaders, and that's why he continued it. Still, he's such a data-driven guy, I'm puzzled as to why he didn't look at the data himself vs relying solely on what police leaders were saying.
Just to be clear - I'm not defending stop-and-frisk or advocating violation of civil rights.
Gotta go - we're having friends over to grill tonight, and yardwork and general tidying up beckons!
Best,
-T.
The numbers are identical, but in my graph you can see a discontinuous steepened decline in shootings starting at the very height of stop and frisk in 2011. Shootings dropped from 1892 to 1821 from 2002 to 2011, or 0.4% per year. 2011 was the peak of the program, and in the subsequent two years it dropped to 1301, or a decline of 14% per year. That's actually pretty dramatic. Of course there may be other factors at play, but you certainly cannot use that data to justify that stop and frisk was not effective.
DeleteRosco is in Oakland California which, contrary to the way it is sometimes portrayed nationally, is mostly a wonderful City. Were it not, I would move.
DeleteBut in our area, as in most of our country, the relationship of the police to the black community is just not the same as it is for others. And it has always been that way.
I am not one to place total blame on the police and I think they are essential and I respect most. But reform is needed.
Best,
Rosco
Agreed improvement is always needed, and it should be a goal to continuously improve.
DeleteJulie - for a wordsmith, you've got some data analysis chops, too!
DeleteOne thing about my chart - it shows a very steep drop in crime between what appears to be 1991 and 2001. Given the steepness of the drop, I say - Let's find out what caused that and then do MORE of that! BTW - this drop may be due to "rising tide lifts all boats" though I haven't tried to research.
Best
-T.
I can give you a pass being from Canada. You appear to know nothing about the US. Understandable, I live on the border and I see the differences in the two countries. We fought a war rather than give up the right to own a group of people. This attitude is still rampant in a lot of the country. The reason there is more contact with black people is that they are under a microscope they are continually stopped or pull over simply because they are black.
ReplyDeleteIf you think that Donald Trump is out for anything other than Donald Trump you are sorely mistaken. Look into any of the things he has bragged about doing and you will see they either existed before he got there or he has withheld the funds from these programs to get his way.
Lets use tariffs for instance. They don't work (see Hawley-Smoot act). Take a look at the deficit in Ag products with China and compare the amount of direct funding he has had to dole out to the farmers to make up for the lost revenue. Ag community has lost some of that business to other countries forever. He did this to make himself look like a big man to his base by standing up to China.
I understand as a lot of people here fell for this guys act, but that is all it is, theater.
Mean while everything is falling down around us. We have 5% of the population and 30% percent of the Covid cases because this ass wipe wouldn't get off his ass and take this seriously. Now he is pushing to reopen to save his precious economy which he has only because he tripled the deficit. This is going to cause a second wave and we will lose everything we have gained in the last two months and kill untold thousand which like minorities he doesn't give a shit about.
Be happy with Justine. Believe me you are getting the better deal. _Alan
- I think there are more complexities to the causes of the Civil War than just that.
Delete- your statement about Trump has no specifics, and no basis of comparison
- tariffs obviously work to bring other countries to the negotiating table
- your rude language displays your inability to consider things dispassionately
Is anonymous saying that the U.S. is mass incarcerating innocent black Americans or are they guilty of a crime? And if the black community is under greater scrutiny then they have a greater responsibility to police their own behavior and that of their community members do they not? Not saying it is just or right but if those are the facts on the ground then live accordingly.
DeleteJulie - the Southern States seceded in order to preserve slavery.
Deletehttps://psmag.com/education/of-course-the-civil-war-was-about-slavery-26265
Anonymous- “under greater scrutiny” by the Police is just a nice way of saying the Police are racist.
Stop blaming the victims.
Is selling a single cigarette worth being killed?
Does jogging deserve the death sentence?
Does owning a gun deserve instant execution?
Does happening to have been given a possibly counterfeit bill deserve a public brutal execution?
Tomas
I would expect that if blonde-haired, blue-eyed females were committing 40% of all violent crimes I would be under greater scrutiny by the cops, I would understand why, I would behave accordingly, and it would totally suck. Good thing I have pretty-girl privilege. Cops never give me tickets!
DeleteAnd to answer less cheekily, no, nobody ever deserves any of those things, I would not ever blame the victim (except if they were stupid about it and gave cops reason to believe they were aggressive and dangerous in which case, yeah, I would).
And really, did you have to ask "Does happening to have been given a possibly counterfeit bill deserve a public brutal execution?" - are you incapable of reading what I said in my blog on that subject already??? Yeesh.
As to causes of civil war, it was more North versus South battling for economic dominance. If you think it was altruistically ONLY about freeing slaves, that is naive.
If George Floyd were a blonde-haired, blue eyed male, the news media would not bother to cover what happened (except perhaps some of the local news in the Minneapolis area). There would be no nationwide protests. There would be no calls to defund the police. So considering this, who really are the racists here?
DeleteRacists are those that keep bringing race into everything. I prefer colour blind equality of opportunity. That's a cause worth fighting for.
DeleteI don't think police should "profile" anybody. But it's human nature if you are in a high crime area and see a young black male in a hoodie acting tough with a gang of friends that you will be on your guard.
DeleteNow you are being deliberately obtuse. I added high crime area, acting tough, youth, with a gang of friends. I'm sure you'd go right up to them, at night, and ask for the time, right?
DeleteThis post highlights the problem of racial profiling and systemic racism, the person is allowed by the constitution to act that way and receive equal treatment under the law, this is a very educational moment in this thread because you can see how how this causes policing problems
DeleteAgreed. Of course they are allowed to act that way, but if one of them breaks a law and the police are required to get involved, of course the cops will be on their guard.
DeleteI am saddened by what a glaring racist you are.
DeleteWould you care to elaborate on what I have said that leads you to believe that?
DeleteI never said treat anybody like a criminal who is not. And I never expressed fear of a culture. You are mind reading and jumping to conclusions. That is what's disgusting here, that you can't engage in a civil conversation without resorting to bullying tactics like that.
DeleteAnd I'm not "implying" that, it's from the data that I referenced. I am sure that there is some portion explainable by anti-black racial bias where miscarriages of justice occur, but where is your evidence showing that is a significant factor? And no, individual anecdotes do not constitute evidence in this sense.
"But it's human nature if you are in a high crime area and see a young black male in a hoodie acting tough with a gang of friends that you will be on your guard."
DeleteYou are right but it is not "human nature" it is human intelligence which knows how to read and interpret clues. The fact that the group is black is not a clue in itself, it can be of any color, what is important is to know how to decipher the clues of danger (aggressive behavior, knives, shouts ... to adapt his behavior). Racists believe that skin color alone can be a sign of danger.
I'm not "jumping to conclusions", I'm just laying out what you're saying. If it hurts, it's because it is your own thoughts reflected back at you with the attempts to spin your racism stripped away.
DeleteYou will not talk to me about a "civil conversation" while you talk down about an entire race. The sheer hypocrisy should shame you.
Sternly: agreed, which is why I added the full context in the first place. If people of whatever skin colour adopt an aggressive stance towards police or fellow citizens, they will be suspect. It's unfortunately a thing that inner city rap culture encourages that sort of aggressive behaviour. I can give you countless rap songs glorifying violence towards police and abuse towards women.
DeleteAnonymous: You are absolutely not "laying out what I said". You are jumping to conclusions. That is very clear. Your final "quote" is nothing I have ever said, nor do I agree with the sentiment.
Very good post. Thank you for having the courage.
ReplyDeleteI think you are right on with your views and spot on about Trump. The best one I heard Pelosi say is that president Trump inherited this booming economy from Obama
ReplyDeleteThat is a doozy. GDP growth staggered along at 1.5% in President Obama’s final six full quarters in office, whereas growth doubled to 3% during President Trump’s first six full quarters. That's pretty dramatic!
DeleteThis is outrageous. Completely out of context, The 1.5% under Obama was to bring the US safely out of the Wall Street/ Detroit Crisis caused by Bush Cheney -with the lowest debt ceiling possible and the 3% is a trillion dollar stimulus package all in red ink.
DeleteYes, tax cuts are a "stimulus package", we agree.
DeleteRemember Trump is deficit spending 500 billion more than the last administration which is more than 1.5% of total GDP. He is actually doing worse than Obama.
DeleteCutting taxes does not magically increase GDP. It increases consumer spending and investment which stimulates the economy to grow, which is the goal.
DeleteDeficits are a separate question. He should have cut govt spending and addressed costly entitlement programs but that would involve congress as well. Hopefully next term he can.
Hi Julie, I agree with your post and applaud you for writing this. Truly, you are a courageous woman but we already knew that from your website. This is likely to bring down the wrath of the Thought Police on you, but hang in there! There are more people on your side than you might imagine.
ReplyDeleteThe larger part of your post seems to be about " redistribution of wealth" which is a phrase that was coined and tested by a linguist and pollster named Frank Luntz. Most likely you never used the word redistribute before you heard it used in that phrase, and with good reason, it's essentially a mechanical term reserved for air conditioners and oil pumps, fluid dynamics and the like, the word redistribution was hardly ever used before a pollster coined a phrase with it. "Redistribution of wealth" as an alternative phrase for taxation was polled tested , coined, and distributed to conservative news outlets and marketed simultaneously to politicians and media as part of the extension of the " Bush -Cheney " era " temporary- tax cut for the wealthiest Americans" that is still in place 2 decades later. People who previously had single syllable vocabularies were suddenly using the word redistribution and it's associated catch phrase. The largest coroprations in the USA are paying effectively zero tax while the country goes further in debt, if they pay the tax and the debt is payed down , that isn't redistribution, along with a host of other scenarios. The welfare recipients of the country get 2 cents on the dollar for any of the so called entitlement programs while state welfare for wealthy corporations gets almost 50 cents on the dollar and the difference is simply to slander the poor as recipients of redistribution of wealth. So for example you visit sex workers twice a year as opposed to paying that $1000 in taxes so that the national debt doesn;t get reduced so that everyone's money is worth more or that a social program can be implemented all under the guise that " you know how to spend your money better than the government does " or that the wealth is being " redistributed". These are the arguments of the Conservative movement in the US. I also should add that your use of the word Leftist, per force would require the word Rightist, consevative is not the antonym of leftist, in fact Leftist is insulting and divisive, it implies that anyone who isn't on the right is extreme and that anyone who is on the right cant have any centrist views or step over the line.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to know what to call you guys nowadays. Certainly not classical liberals. Those are on the right now!
DeleteAnd despite all your words, the rich still pay almost all the taxes. I personally think corporate tax is double taxation.
I think you're over-complicating this. Just respond with "Grr! Left BAD!". It's less "words", and says the same thing as your post, along with the shit attitude you're using when dismissing those who disagree with you.
DeleteAlso, I've seen a facebook post being passed around (by Europeans, not in English) that looks eerily similar to what you've posted above. Are you just copy/pasting this shit?
It's not dismissing, it's called arguing when I disagree.
DeletePlease provide a link to this non-English Facebook post, I'd be curious to see if I was translated and re-distributed!
The rich do not pay all the taxes that is bullshit! The middle class pay 30% in payroll taxes the rich pay much less and the ultra rich pay almost nothing and the top corporations pay zero, Warren Buffet pays a lower percentage in taxes on his investments than his secretary pays on her payroll taxes, and it's all irrelevant to your post trying to explain why someone died from getting his neck stepped upon for 8 minutes. You like the fashions and the split skits and make -up on Fox news better than the Lesbians and the guilt on MSNBC we get it.
DeleteI showed numbers and had references backing my argument. You're just ranting without counter data.
DeleteI agree 100% stick by your guns.
ReplyDeleteDear Julie:
ReplyDeleteThis was clearly a thoughtful post, one that took a lot of work (or this is your day job).
I worry that you lack an American perspective, however.
Why do you think so few blacks support Trump? It's around 10% at most. If your arguments are correct, why don't more blacks support him?
Maybe you are missing something.
Other polls say differently. Most recent Rasmussen poll has him >40% support amongst blacks likely to vote. https://pjmedia.com/election/matt-margolis/2020/06/05/rasmussen-black-voter-approval-for-trump-has-surged-to-over-40-percent-n499859 we shall see come Election Day.
DeleteThat is actually a shocking number.
DeleteExit polling from the 2016 election showed that 13 percent of black men voted for Donald Trump, and 4 percent of black women did.
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/9/21151095/black-women-trump-gop-conservatism-gap-2020
Personally, I will be shocked if Trump breaks 15% of the black vote in the coming election. But we will see.
I would bet you $1000 1-1 on 15%. What do you say? (I would bet on spankings, but I know you would want to lose.)
I think many blacks are realizing that the Democrat policies under Obama, and the Democrat policies of their mayors and governors in the coastal big cities are not serving them well.
DeleteI have a lot of friends that were Democrats in the day and now they vote Republican, so I tell them don't be sad the democratic left you , you didn't leave them. How can you hang with socialism and entitlements. They say exactly
ReplyDeleteI'm center, left-leaning, but find myself agreeing with most of your points.
ReplyDeleteJoe2 here,
ReplyDeleteWow! I clicked on your new post and it was not what I was expecting. I will say that I am having more fun reading the comments than the post itself.
I am a traditionalist. The first rule for a traditionalist is that before you tear down a fence you find out why the fence was put up- look for secondary and tertiary effects.
I do not believe in institutional racism, but I do believe that culture is causing most societal problems. After college, I lived in a poor section of town. The apartment manager told me that over half of the people in the complex were receiving govt assistance for rent. Basically, the govt paid all but $50 of the monthly rent. I quickly learned that there were significant differences in judgement between a lot of them and me. My neighbors did not seem very bad, but their judgment was poor. For instance. there was a convenience store two blocks away and a grocery store four blocks away. Guess where most shopped for food? Oh yes, most had cars. Most of my neighbors did not think past the “today.” They always seemed to have money for alcohol and cigarettes, but it was common for some to “borrow” food from me for their kids, because “the govt hadn’t sent their money yet.” One lady used to come by to ask for food while drinking a beer. And yes, I did check that the food was for the children (though the parents did also eat my food).
I wish I could find the links to the following two comments, but my older computer crashed and I lost them.
1) The first comment was where the UK studied IQs and they found out the people with the lowest IQs were third generation welfare dependents. The analysis was that those people were not innately stupid, rather they had no need to “learn basic skills” and did not value knowledge.
2) The second was an analysis of the Irish in New York City in the mid to late 19th century. Crime was extremely high, alcohol and drug use was very high, illegitimate children were many and almost all were illiterate. (For those that do not know, welfare was minimal, e.g. poor houses, so starvation was real and an illegitimate child was a non-refundable ticket for a lifetime of poverty. Oh, pre-wedding sex has always been common, but there is an old saying that a new wife is much faster than an old wife, because a new wife can have a child in seven months.) What turned the New York Irish around is a priest by the name of John Hughes “Dagger John.” It wasn’t immediate, nor was it complete before he died, but completely changed how things were done. If you read on what he did, you’ll notice a focus on morality, literacy, and personal responsibility.
I like a lot of what you say, however with the disappearance of the low skilled jobs and the inability to earn a living wage because of the competition for what remains, it's a different situation now. UBI will be inevitable. On top of that, 100% everything you say.
Deleteyou are white and in the 1% though, correct?
ReplyDeleteMaybe if you were black and low income, you would see some issues with your arguments.
To Anonymous,
DeleteJoe2 here,
If you want to counter my comment, then counter my comment. Throwing a disparaging words without detail only reflects on you.
To your comment, I am in the top 10%, but not the top 1%. I started working at a low paying job and worked up.
I am white, but so what? Are you saying that because I am not black, I cannot see the issues nor potential solutions? If so, then at best you are not thinking in a logical manner.
I have loved your blog for a long time, and I respect the time you took to write this current post (and of course respect your right to put whatever you want on your own blog!). But because I love your blog, I wanted to respond in kind, if I may.
ReplyDeleteI should add that I do think the Orange Man is bad, not because of his fiscal policies, but mostly because he is a demonstrable liar and a self-confessed sex offender, both of which I think render him unfit to occupy the highest office in the land.
So with that caveat, here are my own responses to your points:
In the US you cannot uncouple poverty from racism
This is a country with a tax-code and economic system built on the principal of protecting generational wealth. Unearned income (such as capital gains) is taxed at less than half the rate of earned income. Middle and low income earners often pay a real-terms higher tax rate than those that earn at higher levels because of a 15% social security tax that is only levied on the first $100000 of earned income, and countless schemes for reducing taxation for higher earners. Inheritance tax has a $5 million personal exclusion which discourages risk and investment (which would in turn lead to economic growth and job creation). Public school funding is based on local property values, which create a de facto private education system – in some of the poorest, and blackest, school districts schools cannot even afford to pay teachers for a full school day. And the cost of university education protects earning potential in the already-monied classes. Private healthcare and an under-funded social security safety net leaves the poorest Americans working their whole lives to barely establish the bottom foundation of their pyramid of needs.
When you combine this entrenched wealth-protection and lack of opportunity for upward mobility, with a country that literally owned and exploited black Americans 150 years ago, and which in the 20th century has denied black Americans voting rights, deeds on their own homes, educations, police protection, mortgages then you can see that poverty and racism are deeply intertwined. Black people literally built the wealth of huge portions of this country in unpaid labour, and white America has spent the last 150 years legislatively protecting its headstart.
Ta-Nehasi Coates article on the case for reparations in the Atlantic explains this all much better than me:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/
Just couldn't resist Orange Man Bad? He is not a sex offender and all politicians lie, most of them egregiously. Trumps lies are mostly hyperbole and optimism.
DeleteWe agree blacks had a rough go even until relatively recently. There no longer exists any laws, institutional practices, or even mainstream attitudes that keep them down. Just the opposite. Now it's a problem of cycle of poverty. I advocate for a UBI to address that, not black-only reparations which are divisive.
Thanks for approving my comment (and sorry for my OMB comment - I couldn't resist, and won't pick up the bait here!)
DeleteAlso I missed this in your post, but I agree wholeheartedly that a Universal Basic Income would be a policy that would address many many issues, and I would be wholly in support of it. Providing people with money to cover their basic needs and healthcare, and thus removing fear, would genuinely allow for upward mobility and self determination. But it's seen as a pretty radical idea here in the US.
On the issue of the cycle of poverty, as soon as you acknowledge that it is a generational cycle then you have to acknowledge that the distribution of wealth in the US is racist. Our grandparents were already paying off their mortgages at a time when black people could not get mortgages by law in many states, and in which deed restrictions meant they were restricted by law from living in areas of rising house prices.
A black American child is more likely to receive a worse public education because their parents are less likely to be able to afford property or rent in a good school district. So they are instantly disadvantaged economically. Their parents had their own earning potential similarly curtailed by the Jim Crow laws which their parents were forced to live under, many of which were designed specifically to prevent black families from building wealth. And many of their parents and grandparents were denied the right to vote, by the sons and grandsons of the people who owned and financially exploited members of their families.
The last slaves died less than 100 years ago in the US, and many millions of black people alive today lived and suffered under segregation. You can't use the laws of the land to deliberately impoverish a person because of the color of their skin, abolish those laws, and then immediately declare the playing field level. This is not a problem of our distant past, much as we like to pretend it is.
I agree that many problems now are due to racism right up until the recent past. However, that is no longer the case. Equality is the law and there are no longer racist institutions, and even racist attitudes are shunned by the vast majority. However, continuing a culture of victimhood does nobody any favours. My grandparents were victimized before immigrating to Canada, but they did not act as victims, they got on with it. It's not that I lack compassion, it's just that anybody playing the victim, when they are not, will not help.
DeleteI suppose I think that the many black people alive today who were forced by law to go to less-good schools because of the color of their skin are direct victims of racist laws and institutions. (Mississippi schools were not finally ordered to desegregate by the federal govt until 1969, and the actual process took longer than that.)
DeleteThose racist laws and institutions reduced their likelihood of going to college, and of getting good jobs and being able to afford to buy or rent housing in school districts that would afford their own children a better education. Those children are then also the (perhaps slightly less direct) victims of racist laws and institutions.
Where does it end? Well, certainly not whilst people who were directly and personally victimized by racist laws are still alive. It is a harder case to make in, say, Canada or Great Britain than it is in the USA or South Africa.
That's why President Trump's 4th point is around school vouchers, a policy that Democrats have consistently opposed. Rather than complaining about it, he's proposing solutions.
DeleteAnd I think South Africa is a strikingly horrible example of what happens when you go too far down that road.
Continued...
ReplyDeleteIn the US you cannot uncouple crime from racism
After the abolition of slavery in the US, white business and plantation owners formed organizations to terrorize freed slaves, incite racial violence, and use state legislatures to prevent black Americans from voting, owning property and serving on juries. Then they purposefully exploited provisions in the 13th amendment which allowed for “involuntary servitude” as a punishment for crime. If white Americans could criminalize black Americans, they could then exploit them for unpaid labour, and protect the slavery that they had relied upon to build their wealth.
To give one specific example of many, state legislatures prevented black people from working, then imprisoned them under newly created vagrancy (i.e. unemployment) laws, and leased them back to their former owners, where they could be forced to work in similarly degrading conditions to those that existed under slavery.
In short, the criminal justice system in the US was literally designed to criminalize black people, and the current system is precedentially based on that original system, which is why black people account for such a large proportion of those arrested, charged, convicted and incarcerated in the US.
This is only a tiny fraction of the deeply ingrained racism in the US criminal justice system, and it is much better explained in Michelle Alexander’s book “The New Jim Crow”.
On the issues of fiscal policy, I am personally a centrist, but I believe the happy middle ground of functional capitalism lies somewhat to the left of the current situation in the US. You yourself admit that progressive taxation is necessary, so the debate really becomes about where to draw the line on both taxation and spending. I would say on this that Canada is much closer to where I wish the US were, and that things like universal healthcare provision should be a baseline for any country that claims to be civilized.
Trump's contribution
On the specific policies you referred to which were enacted during Trump’s presidency, I would say that those that I am most in favour of, such as criminal justice reform, had nothing to do with Trump’s leadership (or lack thereof). The FIRST STEP Act was a rebranded version of the Sentencing Reforms and Corrections Act which was introduced with bipartisan support in 2015. The only reason it didn’t make it into law sooner was because it was repeatedly denied readings by Republican congressional leaders, and because Trump was elected into office and nailed his criminal reform colors to the mast by nominating Jeff Sessions.
I do agree that Trump’s administration (and astonishingly, Betsey DeVos) did offer some financial support to historically black colleges.
Opportunity zones were a pork-barrel tax break which allowed super rich developers to navigate around its central aim and make a fortune building luxury condos and retail without paying a cent in capital gains tax. State involvement also allows lobbyists to get rich as they campaign on behalf of developers to get borderline communities included in the scheme, allowing developers to further sidestep investment in the genuinely at-need areas.
Lastly, without a meaningful minimum wage, historically low unemployment across all demographics does not help poor people of any ethnicity, who are working multiple crappy jobs and still can’t afford to buy groceries.
Lastly
Keep up the very excellent blogging work, and I welcome the broader discourse!
Crime and racism - historically true, now cycle of poverty issue.
DeleteFiscal policy and universal health care - we agree, and I would add UBI to the mix replacing welfare and unemployment type programs.
Minimum wages have shitty unintended consequences. Go UBI and let the market do it's thing on top of that.
President Trump's policies - gettin things done. Needs tweaks like everything, but directionally good
Thanks for the thoughtful comment!
Hear hear! Great entry.
ReplyDeleteHi Julie, I commented earlier on your comments. On progressive tax there are a few things you should know. In Illinois we have a flat income tax but Governor Prickster is putting a progressive tax on the ballot in the fall. The Progresive tax sounds good at first until you get to the part where they can change the percentage amounts at will for who will pay what. In some states that have this they start out good but then they raise the middle class taxes higher than what they were paying originally. Just more BS from the democrats that the rich need to pay more. Some of the corporations that pay zero taxes do this by reinvesting in their businesses and hiring more people. I owned a small construction business and it was to my advantage to get newer equipement and get more help. It did lower my taxability but it also benefitted the help.Also Prickster said that if he didn't get this on the ballot in the fall he would withhold school funding until he did. Keep standing by your guns on this issue it has been quite an enjoyment reading the responses. Glad to know there are some intelligent people left out there. Take care, firefighter Steve
ReplyDeleteJulie, being a leftist, I disagree with some parts of your argument, but I don’t want to argue with you. Others have done so quite ably, and I acknowledge that you have made some good points. I just want to say that your title “Spank the Leftists” gave me an erotic jolt. For some reason, the idea of being handed over to a political opponent for a painful, humiliating spanking after a heated argument is really hot. I think that fantasy has potential to be turned into a sexy story. Let’s say a leftist guy who is secretly submissive to his wife is constantly arguing with his wife’s conservative sister. One day the wife gets so fed up with the endless bickering that she puts an end to it by revealing her husband’s secret to her sister and handing him over to her gloating sister for a painful pants down paddling. My apologies for focusing on kink rather than politics. ;-)
ReplyDeleteNOW we're talking! Love it!
DeleteMe. Me. I'm that sister-in-law!
Julie - going back to your original post, I'm 100% with you on your points about capitalism, and ensuring it works as intended. Here are two articles I believe describe such a type of capitalism: Dignity for All (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/opinion/democrats-economy-dignity-sperling.html) and Moral Capitalism (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/24/opinion/democrats-moral-capitalism.html).
ReplyDeleteBest
-T.
If only they would give equal time to praising the profit motive and celebrating titans of industry and small business owners alike.
DeleteJulie - these Op-Ed columns are typically around 800 words long, so likely focused on essentials related to their main premise.
DeleteAs a SMB owner myself, I do gratefully accept your admiration for being a job creator.
:-)
Best,
-T.
When are you going to end up diapered like your husband has been several times?
ReplyDeleteNo! That would be TOO humiliating. I am NOT a baby. I will not be stripped bare below the waist, have my legs raised, wiped and powdered, and put into a diaper. Certainly not by my Mom and Dad in front of the entire family! What are you thinking?
DeleteFYI.. we hit the blogger limit of 200 comments so I removed some of the dumber ranty comments and removed most of my one liner thank yous to make more room for the discussion. A blanket thank you for your support and thank you for your reasoned arguments. Now keep going, this feels productive!
ReplyDeleteSunday dinner tonight! Do something and get yourself spanked ! Hopefully by mom in the living room
DeleteLet's talk fallacies!
ReplyDeleteCredit where it's due: "Orange Man Bad" is a fallacy (Ad Hominem, https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem) as are anecdotal arguments (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal). You're right to reject those.
*You're Not Wrong, Technically*
By pointing out fallacies, I'm not saying that your arguments behind are wrong. That would be committing the Fallacy Fallacy (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy). There is no argument in a fallacy, and the error is trying to evaluate it as right/wrong, strong/weak.
*Fallacy Definition:* (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fallacy)
1. A false or mistaken idea.
2. A deceptive appearance.
*The Stakes*
By those definitions, only a fool and/or a fraud uses fallacies. Or colloquially (and with some vulgarity), an asshole (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/asshole). Personally, I love to read about your asshole, but I don't want to think of you as one.
**BREAKDOWN OF YOUR FALLACIES**
*No True Scotsman* (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman)
-"Republicans who claim to be conservatives are some of the worst offenders (e.g., Dick Cheney)."
-"This is a true conservative's approach to the problem..."
You'll only argue in favor of conservative opinions that you like. Picky picky!
*Middle Ground* (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground)
-"Capitalism has proven to be the most efficient economic system. If you interfere with capitalism, for example by more and more extreme wealth redistribution, you make everybody poorer."
-"And when I promote capitalism I am not talking about disgusting crony capitalism...."
-"Nor when I promote capitalism am I talking about a complete laissez fair capitalism..."
-"I am not advocating for any sort of extreme position."
If capitalism is the most efficient economic system, that must include even to forms of capitalism that you don't promote. Advocating for a non-extreme position is a move to manage your audience's perception of you.
*Strawman* (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman)
-"Leftists will in general agree that poverty is a problem, but their solution is forcible wealth redistribution."
You'll narrow down definitions in some areas to benefit you, but argue against "leftists in general". That's constructing an easy target, depriving them of the benefits you give yourself.
*Texas Sharpshooter* (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter)
-"The wealthiest 50% of the citizens already pay almost all of the taxes (98%), and the top 10% are paying more than half of all taxes (60%). I am concerned that if you take it much farther it interferes with socially positive capitalism."
There are many definitions for what a tax is, and you haven't specified any in your statistics (so it's actually impossible to verify). Also, you omit pertinent "poverty" information like taxes paid as a percentage of wealth or income.
*False Cause* (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause)
-I believe that the real problem is poverty. And no, I do not mean wealth inequality or racism. I mean poverty.
If the cause is poverty, prove it for people beyond blacks. Show that other impoverished groups in the USA have similar outcomes. Examples of areas you could evaluate for: races other than black, age, locality, occupation/unemployment, religion, etc.
*Conclusion*
Possible in-flavor solutions: (1) Writing lines of "I Will Not Commit Fallacies". (2) Ask David/Sue/Mistress Violet for a spanking on your bottom hole as a reminder not to be an asshole yourself.
However you approach it, we agree that fallacies are a behavior worth correcting-- for fun and intellectual rigor!
Love,
The Fallacy Dom
🙌🙌🙌
ReplyDeleteMiss Julie, I thought your post was amazing and well thought out. You wrote what I could not put into words. Thank you. I fail to see why so many people just will not listen to reason and are so fueled by HATE alone, all while flying under the flag of acceptance. laci
ReplyDeleteThank you Laci. It is ironic that leftists cannot see how hateful their words and actions are, I agree.
DeleteThis is a fantastic post on so many levels. Regardless of one's supportive or opposing position, you've done an excellent job of being eloquent and standing firm in what you believe. I'd love to have these kinds of discussions with you or someone like you. (Question being: Is there anyone else out there like you....?) Of course, I'd submit to the other kind of "discussion" with you as well, so maybe I'm thinking with the "brains" I sit on too... Lc
ReplyDeleteWow! Not only are you the kinkiest woman on the web, you are a smart, well informed, and an intelligent appraiser of the current impending disaster. Brava, brava, brava!
ReplyDeleteWinston Churchill once said: "If you are not a liberal when you are in your twenties, you have no heart. If you are not a conservative when you are in your forties, you have no brain."
ReplyDeleteCompletely unrelated: How has Sue reacted to your ripped up contract??? I thought she would have also had more to say about the recent interaction with daddy!
ReplyDeleteGreat article, I was worried you might be a Trudeau voter being from Toronto and all. There was reports of someone getting arrested at a black lives matters protest in Vancouver or Edmonton or somewhere for wearing black face and my first thought was it was Justin Trudeau, just doing his thing.
ReplyDeleteDear Julie,
ReplyDeleteYour original post challenged some of my opinions and strengthened others. This was also true when I was reading through all the comments, which I thought were mostly well argued. What the discussion clearly demonstrates is that these issues are very complex.
I am wondering though if the point you’ve made a number of times in various ways about ‘acting as a victim... is counterproductive,’ fails to acknowledge the complexity of what people feel when they are harmed or injured as the result of an event or action by another person. An indigenous baby who was stolen from her/his parents by white colonialist is a victim of racism. A woman who is paid less than a man for the same job is a victim of sexism. A child who is sexually abused is a victim of sexual abuse. A woman who is bashed by her partner is a victim of domestic violence. These are not people who are ‘acting as’ victims, they are victims. Victim is the correct word to use. If not that word, then what word should be used?
I’m hoping that your comment about ‘acting as victims... is counterproductive’ was another way of saying that if a person only focuses on being a victim then it can lead to a destructive downward spiral of self pity. I agree with you if that was what you meant, but it didn’t come across that way.
In your post and in comments I applaud you for repeatedly stating, in various ways, that you oppose ‘anybody or any institution acting in a discriminatory way to any human being at all.’ However, I feel that it is dismissive at best and offensive at worst to describe people who have been on the receiving end of racism as ‘acting as’ a victim.
I absolutely mean it in the sense you state. A sufferer of real discrimination IS a victim, and they should seek justice, but not fall into that spiral of victimhood you describe so eloquently. I myself have been victimized, but have never acted the victim. thought I was clear in my statement acknowledging that acting the victim is no good even if you ARE one. I'm glad you took the time to ask for clarification, it is civilized!
Delete"Police brutality does not favour one skin colour over another. The rates do, as expected, line up with the number of contacts police have with people of each skin colour, which lines up with the crime statistics for people of each skin colour. This is what you would expect."
ReplyDeleteSo the police just so happen to make contact with more black people, which leads to more arrests and killings. Your post implies this is because police come in contact with the people who deserve policing, but it seems a lot more likely that the police are making contact based on racial biases.
It doesn't "just happen". Police generally respond to complaints or to flagrant violations that they observe. I hope we can agree that the causes are a combination of both current racism and blacks engaged in disproportionate criminality (which is likely due to cycle of poverty type stuff, historical racism, failed past policies, broken culture, broken families, ...). The important question is how much of it is explained by one versus the other? Outcome is not evidence of cause.
DeleteJulie.....in these days of "cancel culture" and doxxing those with differing opinions....you are a very brave woman to post this and I admire you for it.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately these days civil discussions about differing points of view are few and far between as both sides are sure that their view is the correct view and anyone who doesn't agree must be wrong.
But now debate has given way to violence.....it has become "agree with me or else"....It's a much more scary world now...
When presented with facts they don't like they are simply brushed aside or ignored in favor of a narrative that must be maintained....
In my younger years I was about as left as anyone could be...
But I'm not anymore....I grew up and learned how the world actually works and I realized that all I was being told was a load of bullshit....
I never post anything about politics on my blogs because I believe that I cannot change anyone's mind....
We live in a world where those on the left have chosen.....to quote Joe Biden...."Believe truth over facts"
I wish we weren't as divided as we are but we are and reasonable arguments are a quaint antique idea....
And I think that's a very sad thing...
I love your blog BTW....
Kaaren
Thanks Kaaren- it was interesting getting this comment at exactly the same time as the one below.
DeleteWell it is a hell of a lot more complicated than you write. I'm going to hit on the issue you did not bring up. President Trump would outlaw your behavior. The interesting thing is that he probably doesn't care but the core of his support comes from people who don't think you should be different. I'm a sissy and I know that he is more of a man than I am. If I weren't hidden in the closet then I wouldn't have a job and I would be bullied with no real support. I'm married and have a child and my wife also thinks I'm a sissy. It is way to complicated to write out while I'm trying to finish before our child comes down for the day. We were Trump maybe not exactly supporters but not haters but he just keeps stoking the culture wars in America and then his moves to oppress people who have different sexualities just makes it sad. If what you post true about your and David's life (and I suspect it is) then his supporters would do their best to humiliate you and they want laws to keep you from describing what you do using this platform and others. Again - it is all really complicated but you need to look more closely at the funding for HBCU - I mean really look at the history of the legislation. The Republicans took something away so this legislation was needed.
ReplyDeleteAnd Democrats want to ban all forms of sex work because it "oppresses women". Mistress Violet heartily disagrees in her case, and many of her colleagues as well. They argue more laws (against either the providers or the customers) just push it more underground and make it more open to abuse and criminal behaviour.
DeleteYour statement about Trump and Trump supporters are given without evidence. Can you cite an example of government policy that has been oppressive to those of different sexual inclinations and orientations?
And for HBCU, I'm not sure your point. Are you saying Trump redressed a wrong that Republicans did earlier? If so, great.
You may have one of the surviving downoads of the Candace Owens video, she removed it from her You tube channel.
ReplyDeleteFake news. Still there. I'll bet Twitter is hiding it from you.
Deletehttps://twitter.com/realcandaceo/status/1268280610818101248
What a well written and thoughtful piece. I applaud your bravery in writing this article. Bravo! 200 plus responses speaks volumes about this topic relative to our community as a whole.I happen to be a sexually submissive male. I also happen to be a serial entrepreneur who is among those contributing to a healthy portion of the tax base. I must confess that, at times, I feel that my social libertarian views coupled with my fiscal and political conservatism are grossly at odds with the kinky community. Your entry was a breath of fresh air to me. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteMy pleasure. Thank you for creating jobs and making stuff better!
DeleteThank you everybody for the great interactions on this piece. I learned a lot and had some of my attitudes softened, and I hope the same was true for you.
ReplyDeleteWe've reached bloggers limit for number of threaded comments again (200). I've had to prune my own "than you" type replies three times now to make room, so if you left a comment and I seemed to not acknowledge, it's because of that. A blanket thank you though, to everyone.
I'm particularly taken by the very large number of people who feel similar to I, and how polite they are. These folks are usually bullied into not giving their views by a very few who are hard left and use divisive and insulting language. I am also impressed by all those who disagree with aspects, but can engage in polite debate. Despite appearances to the contrary, polite rational people are the majority!
I'll shut down the comments now (as there is no room to publish more), but if you want to please feel free to email me (email top right under About Me).
Thank You!