So, Matt Damon said we are living in a "culture of outrage". He went on to say “there’s a difference between patting someone on the butt and rape or child molestation. Both of those behaviors need to be confronted and eradicated without question, but they shouldn’t be conflated.”
I don't know anything about this guy, other than I've seen him in some movies, but that quote makes sense to me. And yet he's getting lambasted for saying it!
The proper response to getting any part of you inappropriately touched is to slap the guy in his face. Either that or have a nearby gentleman punch him in the face. That's adequate punishment. It should be written into the law (I am assuming it is not) as being ok to respond that way. And I think safe enough for me to support #ibelieveher in such cases.
If a man actually rapes a woman then for sure that's a serious felony and should be treated as such in the courts of law. And in such cases I am absolutely not a proponent of #ibelieveher. These are serious charges with life changing outcomes, and the accused need the ability to confront their accusers in a court of law. I know it's tough on the girl, and some will not report as a result. But there have been so many cases of false accusations that you cannot "just believe" women, any more than you can "just believe" men.
All the Hollywood scandals are like, really? Those women knew what they were signing up for. They were trading sex for work, or putting up with bad behaviour for work. Just don't do that if you don't want to. Find another line of work. I don't much care about an actress who sleeps her way to the top. I think the guys involved could likely do better at their jobs by not confusing willingness to go to bed with potential box office success, but whatever.
I also don't get the faux outrage over stories of female teachers sleeping with their teenaged charges. Here's a 25-year-old art teacher arrested for having sex with four high-school aged boys in her art class.
Ok, not the smartest move, but good grief, is there a victim here? I think for there to be a crime there needs to be a victim. If a boy was victimized, damaged in some way, then fine, consider that. The real victims are the other 20 boys in the class who didn't get to sleep with her. I think the appropriate "punishment" is to let those other randy youngsters have at her also.
I think there really is a difference here if you reverse the sexes. But it's like 99 times out of 100 there is harm in one case, and in 1 out of 100 there is harm the other way. Fine, treat them the same, but ask if there is an actual victim involved.
Then there's this idiotic idea that a woman can dress how she wants, act how she wants, drink as much as she wants, go anywhere she wants, with anybody she wants (e.g., dress provocatively, flirt outrageously, drink heavily, go alone to a guys' room, make out with him, and then say "no"). Yes, the guy should stop. But does the woman have none of the blame here? Really? NONE?
To me, that's a lesser offense then some guy in a ski mask breaking into your home and violently raping you against your will. Can't we agree on that? Guess not.
Tell me what you guys think. Am I right on, or out to lunch? No need to be politically correct here. All comments welcomed.
Ms. Julie you've entered into dangerous territory here and it's a shame that I have to say that! We've entered into a time of hysteria and it just seems to be getting worse all the time!
ReplyDeleteI'm not a fan of Matt Damon but that doesn't mean I can't see that he's very correct in what he said here.
There is a world of difference in a pat on the butt and a real sexual assault and to somehow equate them enlarges the former and belittles the latter!
As to the female teacher....well again it's tricky...if I had been one of those boys in her class I'd have thought myself to be the luckiest boy on earth....no victim there! But if she had coerced me with perhaps blackmail over grades or something I'd feel abused and victimized...perspective is everything here! Even after reversing the sexes I can make a distinction between an almost adult giving consent or being coerced or forced!
Teens grow up much earlier nowadays and are vastly more knowledgeable about sex than we were 30 years ago.
I understand that no means no....but when you've spent the entire night half naked and saying yes all along sometimes hearing that no is a little difficult....so if you're three sheets to the wind drunk in a skin tight mini with no undies on and you've agreed to go to his place....you've set the stage for whatever follows...and if what follows is an assault it must be reported to the police as soon as possible!
Those accused have rights too and are presumed innocent....although lately an accusation of boorish behavior from 20 years ago is enough to derail and destroy a career...as if just the accusation is all that's needed to prove guilt! As if no one has ever been falsely accused....some should read "To Kill A Mockingbird" some day!
I'll close with one of the funnier accusations I've heard lately...this one regarding President Trump...
In his capacity as owner of the beauty pageant (Miss universe?) one woman complained that he barged into her dressing room while she was completely naked under her robe!
In fact I have to admit that I go about my business every day completely naked under my clothes!!! Maybe I can file charges against someone too!!!
It's a shame that this is where we've arrived at...don't get me wrong....real abusers deserve whatever they get...and they should get it good and hard too...honey and fire ants pops to mind...but they deserve due process....they deserve a chance to also be believed and let the most credible win!
What Matt Damon said is true and all the bogus outrage over him speaking the truth is what I find to be really outrageous!
I'm ready for the attacks that are sure to come my way....but bear in mind I have a serious masochistic streak and will probably enjoy it!!!
Just my $0.02
I've read ahead to the other comments. It seems we may be a "silent majority", at least our little BDSM community whom I think has a greater appreciation for some of the nuances here!
DeleteHello Julie. I agree with you that touching a butt is not in the same league as child molest or rape. That being said, all are wrong and should face legal prosecution. There is no excuse.
ReplyDeleteThe main theme here should be, I think, that our legal system provides bounderies. That includes age. So, by law (thankfully) sex with minors is a felony.
An adult who doesn't understand that, is a fool.
The same thing goes for behaviour and dress codes.....it's all fun and games, but when ONE OF BOTH parties says NO (the magic word), the show is over. You are right, Julie, when saying that a girl get's away with a lot of stuff (drunk, dress, guy's room, making out, etc), but NO is NO.
There is no excuse for assault or rape. NO is NO.
No person 'signs up' for being sexually harrassed, touched inappropiate, etc, etc, because it's 'part of the job'. That's lunacy and the laws are very strict on that for good measure.
In conclusion: everything goes as long as it is within legal bounderies and as long as it is consensual.
That includes males and females alike!
Marco (from Lindsay).
But does the law differentiate in all these cases? Seemingly not, unfortunately, especially not in today's hysteric climate.
DeleteThat question can only be answered in the courthouse. Hysteric climate or not, the laws that are involved here are written a long time ago and stand firm to protect anyone from sexual harrassment.
DeletePeople who yell and scream are not necessarily always right.
Something to think about in today's hysteric climate, yes?
Marco
Not so sure the laws should not be reconsidered if they are being abused...
DeleteOnly time will tell if these laws are 'abused', as you claim here, Julie. We see a lot of screaming and yelling, but those actions have little impact on an independent justice system (which is a good thing altogether). To change laws just because you feel like it, is the end of liberty and the independence of justice.
DeleteScreamers and yellers only hear themselves....don't follow suit.
Marco
Not "just because I feel like it", but in the time honored ways that democracies change their laws. I would advocate for laws that make a distinction, as does Damon.
DeleteInteresting point, but I disagree. Assault is assault and that's clear for anyone. Once you start making differences in 'body zones', you venture into 'well, I did touch her back, but my hand never grabbed her ass, your honour'. No, this way it's clear for any party: you don't touch another person, without consent, especially inappropiate bodyparts.
DeleteBest wishes,
Marco
Marco, Differences in an offense or degrees is a very important test in almost all laws. Heck there are even many degrees of murder! The last sentence of your comment even made that distinction. “Especially inappropriate body parts”.
DeleteLets say that a person shopping in the produce department of a grocery store falls after stepping on a grape. On their way to the floor they brush against someone of the opposite sex. Without well reasoned laws that understand the complexity of life that person could find themselves on a sex offenders registry the rest of their lives.
Of course your saying that’s absolutely absurd! I would hope so but without the nuances written into laws how can we guarantee it remains absurd.
Tom
Good points all!
DeleteHello Tom,
Deleteyour response prooves my point.
For starters, if both parties agree with the act, there is no legal prosecution IF both parties are allowed to have a sexual relationship by law (age, IQ, etc.).
Second, if one of both parties doesn't want anything sexually happening to him/her, the whole act is illegal. It is that simple.
Third: the 'sexual inappropiate acting' is, logical, done 'on purpose'. I reckon everyone agrees on this, especially people who go to law school.
My point is that grabbing, groping, 'flashing' are starting points of sexual inappropiate acts, when one of both parties disagrees. It may lead to further, more invasive actions in the future and should be stopped, by law, as soon as possible.
Just groping is as 'I was just stealing an apple'.
Stealing is a major offense.
The goods that are stolen may have a small price, but it's the act itself that is the offense.
Now stealing an apple does not get you in jail (which is a good thing), but if groping isn't punished hard enough, the message to the offender is clear: I can get away with this.
That, we cannot let happen.
Kind regards,
Marco
In my book you are 99% on the money with your comments here. Yes, a "No" is a "No" (unless it's a play scene with a different stop word), and a "No" should/must be respected. But there is a significant difference between being forcibly raped against your will under threat of harm and having someone grab your ass or boobs at the dancefloor of a disco.
ReplyDeleteYes, in order for there to be a crime, there really should be an actual victim, and not just in a purely legal sense. The example of a 25 y.o. teacher having sex with a student in a sexually active age category should not necessarily be looked upon as a crime, unless the teacher somehow threatened or coerced the student into having sex with her against his desire. But even then, in order for a crime to have been committed, there really should be an actual victim. Not sure I'm entirely onboard with your probably humourous suggestion that the rest of the boys in the class be allowed to fuck the teacher too, is a good idea in practice, but I can agree that it would have some level of poetic justice associated with it as a punishment.
The only part of your post I'm only partly onboard with, is the matter of the girl's clothes and behaviour prior to a supposed rape. Yes, if the girl was all over the accused all evening etc., it is a (potentially strongly) mitigating circumstance IMO, and unless there was physical force, threats or other coercion involved in the ultimate sex act, I do not believe that we should be talking prison time for the guy that didn't take "No" for an answer at some point, unless some other factors justify it. But at the end of the day, a "No" is and remains a "No", and if the girl says "No", when you're coming on to her, or at some point during the sex act, it's an effective stop word, and you bloody well at least have to check in with her on the matter. And if she's no longer cool with the act, then play has to stop at that point, and communication about the nature of the problem should follow, in order to try and eliminate misunderstandings and hard feelings.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in a few days BTW, and thank you for all your posts throughout the year. They really do make for great reading and entertainment IMO :-)
I agree we are in 99% agreement (given that my "punishment" was in fact tongue in cheek). I think that the word "no" is not enough by itself, if everything else about you is saying "yes". e.g., saying a soft "no" while continuing to kiss and fondle the guy as he tries to feel you up (been "raped" a lot that way as a teenager and enjoyed the thrill!). If it proceeds to violence, and the woman is saying "NO" in every possible way, then I totally agree, but still think the woman bears some responsibility (which does not absolve the guy in the least) if she irresponsibly put herself in that situation with a guy she barely knows.
DeleteWell stated and totally agree!
ReplyDeleteYay!
DeleteThis male asked my wife how she felt about this, her response "Two Way Street". She also states males cannot read females and females due to their chemistry send the wrong signals. This male feels that females will use what God gave them to get what they want, but also will play the innocent victim if they don't get what they want. This whole issue both sides have not been heard, and questions are not being asked. Hollywood is a different world, the couch has been a part of the industry from the beginning. Women still don't get paid what the men do, their bodies is what they have to barter with. My wife states these young women are in over their head, will realize as they get older. These men my wife states are still acting like little boys and the young women like it. Sex is not the end to all means, at the time it is, but once again my wife states we females will have a different view afterwards. Female or Male Teachers, they know better, this male does not understand why a female teacher would cross the line. As for the parents they have failed to properly teach their children when it comes to sex, Mothers know their daughter for they were that age. Your not out to lunch.
ReplyDeleteWe are of like minds.
DeleteJulie,
ReplyDeleteWell stated I couldn't agree with you more. I honestly sit back and really don't see were these Hollywood actresses and actors are victimized. I wont get into a heated debated over right and wrong (which I think most are in agreement on) but there needs to be some accountability on both sides, and some of these victims need to grow some skin.
Yup. A knee in the balls is an effective deterrent for the likes of Louis CK or Harvey Weinstein: "Show me... Let me get closer... Oooh, what a BIG one... KNEE!" I'll take the chance of getting beat up or having to go public if there are further repercussions. But that's me...
DeleteHi Julie, long time lurker here -
ReplyDelete#ibelieveher doesn't mean that the accused is instantly thrown into jail with no trial. It is only meant to get people to support victims sexual assault. Of course everyone will get their day in court, no one is trying to change that. If we as individuals believe and create a culture of support for victims of sexual assault, people who are sexually assaulted will be more likely to get help and seek justice. Of course in court there are much higher standards of proof and evidence, but as it is now most sexual assaults go unreported (I have read statistics saying only 1 in 5 are ever reported to the police!) so they never even get there.
As far as celebrities who are sexually assaulted, I don't think its fair to expect them to just put up with advances from powerful men or find another job. I don't think Hollywood is fundamentally different from any other job where a woman might "sleep her way to the top" (or to put it another way - have to deal with constant sexual harassment and advances from her male bosses or clients to keep her job). This is a societal problem that can't be solved by just finding another job - especially if it isn't combated! If the answer is for the woman to just find another job, the same problem will occur in the new job. There are plenty of people who have wanted to punch their boss or an important client in the face (and sometimes with very good cause!) - most of the time it really isn't a valid option.
As far as teachers having sex with their students, I think this kind of attitude of "if the teacher was hot, the boys are probably fine" is really very unfair to men. Teenagers do not have fully developed brains, are a storm of hormones, and can not consent to sex with adults, especially their teachers! There is a really messed up power dynamic there. I am sure you can find cases of teenage girls who would tell you they wanted it with a male teacher (it's still wrong, even if they want it!), just as I am sure that some of these boys will look back on it later and think that yeah it was actually pretty messed up.
Consent and the ability to give consent are really incredibly important. That is why YES, a woman (or a man, or a non binary person) SHOULD be able to act how they want, drink as much as they want, go anywhere they want, with anybody they want, dress provocatively, flirt outrageously, go alone to anyone's room, make out with them, and then say "no". You should always be able to say "no". That is the whole point of safe words, isn't it? No matter what you're doing or have been doing, if for any reason you don't want to do it anymore and you want to stop, you have your safe word. If there isn't some other word that both people have agreed means "no", then no means no. The consequence of saying no should be that the other person stops and maybe they are upset with you and don't talk to you anymore, but certainly not that they just keep going because they decided you don't get to say no anymore.
Certainly if someone in a ski mask breaks into your home and rapes you that is very obviously awful, but there are other kinds of violence besides smashing a window and having a weapon, and other ways to coerce someone into doing something against their will than physical force, and we should not ignore those victims.
That's my 2 cents, sorry about the wall of text!
Love your blog,
dd
I find little to disagree with in your comment, and it states the case from the other side very well.
DeleteI did want to point out that it's not only teenage boys who don't seem to have fully developed brains, I would throw most grown men in there when it comes to a pretty woman!
And my argument is not that a full-body "no" should not be respected, it's that the woman should bear some responsibility as well for getting herself into an untenable situation (just as a BDSM player should not consent to play with just anyone - there needs to be trust or the sub can rightfully be called extremely irresponsible him/herself!)
The backlash against Matt Damon's comments is redolent of the hysterical reation to the "Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber" memo.
ReplyDeleteNuance and rational consideration do not sit well with simplistic, self-righteous victimhood narratives.
Yes. Nuance. We understand that, us people who play with power exchange and BDSM!
DeleteRosa and I are with you on this and yet we too have been lambasted by people close to us for feeling this way. (I don't know if you still read my blog because I haven't seen you there in a while, but in a past post I mentioned that there was an argument that had disrupted our family harmony. It was over this precise issue.)
ReplyDeleteThere is a great danger at work in today's social and political environment: team polarization.......for whatever "team" that may be. Each side now, in any issue, takes such an extreme stance in one direction or the other, that reasonable moderate views are now the targets of derision from both sides. And in the process, dozens of 'babies' are being tossed out with the bathwater.
BTW, welcome to the dangerous world of political blogging. I'm going to be very interested to see how this post affects a popular, female-author blog that revolves around amazing sexual adventures punctuated with actual revealing photos of their sexy author, and has a huge, devoted male audience. My guess is that yours will not suffer nearly as much as one like mine.
I did read that and was curious what it was!
DeleteYes. The reasonable position is best, and is, as you say, becoming the extreme for some unfathomable reason. Hopefully good sense will return.
Not suffering yet. MY readers are extraordinarily sensible and intelligent! ;-)
Some of it is over the top, some of it is not. Look, if Harvey Weinstein uses his influence and power to blackball someone because they would not have sex with him, that is a problem. If Louis CK asks some women if they mind if he jacks off in front of them and they say yes because they think it will help his career... not so much.
ReplyDeleteAs for the "she was asking for it" item, I have a problem with that notion. Yes a woman should be responsible for her actions, for example drinking too much, offering consent and then saying, well "I was drunk". With that said, dressing a certain way should not make rape okay.
On some level though, this is all about abuse of power... Men have been abusing their historic power over situations for, well, history. While as I do not entirely agree with EVERY one of these cases coming out, it is about time some of this comes to light and is ended. At some point we, as a species, should move past the idea that, for example, a man with a shirt of jogging is a virile young stud getting some good exercise, a woman doing the same is a whore and deserves it if she gets raped.
I didn't say rape was ever ok or that she was asking for it and it justifies the rape. I'm saying that she needs to bear some responsibility for her actions. What are we teaching young women if we do not scold them for putting themselves into dangerous situations.
DeleteThe problem is, when we say things like, "she should go into a different line of work" or "Well, she should bear some responsibility for her actions" we are expecting women to change their behavior because of the bad behavior of others, and that... is something we should be evolving past as a society. I have no issue with Matt Damon's statement really, but there is also centuries of minimizing things with sentences that start out "it was just a little..."
DeleteWe can have both
Deletehi from canada.
ReplyDeletetorte law is applicable in canada. consider then the concept of contributory negligence.
consider how the social norm of the day changes. this uses an example from 1982 where a mini skirt was deemed contributory
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/31/ukcrime.immigrationpolicy1&ved=0ahUKEwi11NmhyK_YAhWGON8KHYa9As0QFggcMAA&usg=AOvVaw2vOJeDsebMgOW6V96P9CRw&cf=1
im not sure that copied with my phone properly
todays social norm is appalled at a mini skirt. what will tomorrows norm be
draw a parallel to our bedroom activities. what we read about here and some get to do is consentual but it often sure isnt legal. a poster earlier said within the boundries of law and consentual is ok. all of us readers and practitioners throw half of that aside.
the original question are there levels of wrong? paralell again. are there things a sub does that get a light hand spanking and things that get a harsh whipping? when its play fun perhaps not. when its real discipline the arguement would say i hope so
a heavy topic to end the year with
enjoy 2018
I'm not actually suggesting that the punishment should be lessened if the woman is definitively saying NO with all her mind and body and is then raped by violence. If she is just thinking no, or muttering it softly while continuing to engage, then yes that should be taken into account, even if the woman is drunk and regrets it afterwards.
DeleteAnd this is going to be really, really, controversial, so best I bury it down here in a comment (!), but being fucked against one's will is NOT the worst thing that can happen to a woman (been there). If I had to choose being killed, being badly beaten to the point of requiring hospitalization, or being fucked against my will... then yeah...
Dear Mistress Julie,
ReplyDeleteWell, you have certainly opened up a can of worms today!
I generally agree with your thoughts. As a society, we have lost our ability to discriminate critical differences. For example bullying and responding to bullying are now treated as the same offense.
With regard to sexual offenses, the standards for everything from sexual harassment to rape have been dumbed down to levels of absurdity. While the court of public opinion has its place, accusations do not equal legal guilt.
As a society, we have also lost respect for the individual in general and, as we have witnessed in some segments of the population, lost respect for women in particular. In government and entertainment, they are not upset about the way women are routinely treated as much as they are angry that we found out!
One thing I will disagree with you on is the subject of punching in response to unwanted touching. Not only does this put you on the wrong side of the law, but you can never predict the result of physical violence on another person. You don’t know about medical conditions that may come to the surface and a punch and a fall unto a hard surface can have some very unintended consequences.
On teacher seduction: I agree that there is a huge difference between man/girl and woman/boy. I had a beautiful teacher in high school that would not have ruined my life in the least had she kept me after class to seduce me. Or spank me! Yes, it would have been “wrong”, but there are levels of wrongness I would have been an accomplice as opposed to a victim.
Finally, advising women to not get drunk alone in public is NOT NOT NOT victim blaming! Just as you lock the doors to your house, keep your wallet in a secure place, and password protect your computer, you are also responsible for taking reasonable precautions to protect yourself.
I am curious to see others’ thoughts and how civil the discussion remains.
Submissively,
david
Right on, david. I am glad that at least one person sees that asking women to take responsibility for their own actions is NOT the same as excusing rape.
DeleteWe will have to disagree on the punch (or, by extension, the face slap!). It should be a legal remedy. Any further punching is assault, but one good one in response to a #ibeleiveher should be protected. If as an unintended consequence there is more serious injury, then oh well, they could have equally fallen in the shower.
Discussion is VERY civil. My readers are very smart and well educated, clearly!
Yes! I have studied various forms of self defense for several decades. A common and disturbing trend in the self defense community today is push-back from some radical feminists. Don’t teach women to defend themselves, they say. Teach men not to rape. I wish I was making this up, but it’s true. There are actual people out there protesting the existence of women’s self defense classes as a form of victim-blaming.
DeleteSmacking my head,
david
I think "self-defence" should be more about being aware and avoiding dangerous situations. I would not give myself much hope of defeating an enraged male in physical combat!
DeleteOr you can go the way of Sarah Palin: packin'
DeleteGuns are a good, but not complete option where legal. Of course awareness and avoidance are primary and when applied, keep us out of trouble with almost 100% certainty. Add don’t be in a gang, don’t do illegal drugs and you’re pretty well set. The final avoidance tip: The most common indicator that you’re about to be assaulted is you’re being an asshole. Don’t do that. But you can do everything right and have an extreme bad luck outlier experience. For those cases, it is important to be able to use the tool of violence. Every person has parts of their body that are breakable by any other person. Knowing how to target and injure these parts gives you at least a 50-50 chance. First injury wins. Knowing the tool of violence is like knowing how to swim. It allows you to go through life with one less thing to worry about. If you’re interested in learning more from an expert (not me) please let me know.
Deletedavid
thanks!
DeleteI think the real problem is that when it comes to things labeled sexual harassment, there is only one acceptable response: destroy the offender. The most blatant case is public radio shunning Garrison Keilieor. He touched a woman's back (gasp! bare skin) many years ago.
ReplyDeleteAfter the incident, he apologized and they remained friends until recently when a lawyer called.
The issue to me isn't whether it is ever ok to sexually touch, but what we do when that happens. Where I work, I've been told that the only way you can just get fired is to sexually harass someone or cheat on your expense account.
Sexual harassment has an automatic death penalty attached. Touching a woman's ass is the end of my professional life. Wow. No ass is that sexy.
In short, I think reporting a small back touch 30 or 40 years later is reprehensible. Was the woman's life destroyed? Clearly, no. Is the man's? Absolutely.
I don't agree with you about provocative dress or actions being automatic invitations for sexual actions.
At BDSM events it is common for women (and men) to be naked. I've tied naked women to tables or slings. Neither they nor I invited people to touch them. They were sexually available to me (sometimes); no one else.
The same is true of me. I've been tied into a sling at some parties. Some passing women have teased me (since I am a switch). None touched me sexually.
Men and women should be able to know the difference between being provocative and wanting sexual activity. At the same time, if sexual activity was wanted and received, it's absolutely wrong to later claim it wasn't invited.
Do we need to carry forms that potential sexual partners must sign giving permission to touch? It's getting that way.
Of course, Julie, you have my permission.
Well, you bound and naked in a sling in public would certainly be a compelling invitation to ME to touch you in any number of sexually disturbing manners! ;-) I would even say the same if it were me in that situation. Would need to trust my Dom to keep me safe. But if your lady were present I would certainly ask her permission before diving in for the kill! That's only polite.
DeleteBut I didn't say provocative dress or actions were automatic invitations. I did say that if a woman engages in them irresponsibly, then she bears some of the responsibility for what may (illegally!) ensue.
You are exactly correct.....and I believe "most" people are in agreement.....they just don't say anything anymore. :)
ReplyDeleteI think you are right based on the responses here (our own little "safe space").
DeleteDamm, you couldn’t be more right on with your words.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has had dealings with Weinstein, he should have had his balks kicked years ago but too many women saw an opportunity to advance and went for it.
However, even though all this outrage and accusations about sexual harassment is in the forefront right now, it too shall pass like every other flavor of the month.
You’ve lost me as a reader
ReplyDeleteOk!
DeleteHmmm, very thought provoking. I would say that the accusations are reaching hysterical levels where a possible bad lay from 20 years ago can be used to sully someone's name forever because a woman regretted it after the fact, and those accused are largely considered guilty until proven innocent in the eye of the public.
ReplyDeleteDamon is right that a single touch or comment is not the same as forcibly using an unwilling person sexually. But somehow saying "Nice ass, baby" has turned into a heinous crime. I'm old enough to remember when that behavior was simply but firmly rejected if unwelcome by the woman, and the man if he had any honor at all would be sufficiently chastened to walk away with his tail between his legs and new knowledge of the boundary line. A man without any honor would throw a tantrum and would simply be thrown out and shunned rather than going through this whole "OMG, a man came on to me and I'm such a dainty delicate flower that I can't deal with it!" ordeal.
Something I've seen with modern women is that many seem to believe their actions and decisions should occur in a vacuum with no consequences at all. Like a busty woman wearing a low cut shirt and then complaining when men look at her tits. If you don't want a man to look, don't show them off like that, girl! Most of us don't even realize we're doing it, honestly, it's simply how we're wired. If you dress like a cocktease and act like a cocktease, don't be surprised when cock starts inquiring as to your availability and/or simply taking what you give them (gandering at cleavage, legs, etc).
Of course, no means no and I would not be opposed to having rapists run the gauntlet followed by daily torture. But women who falsely accuse men of sexual crimes need to be punished as well. Too often I've seen cases where it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that no sexual crime occured, and the woman received no sanction or punishment. And I'm not talking about unclear cases where it's simply too difficult to prove a crime did or did not happen, but cases where the woman ADMITS she made it all up. These kinds of "women" need to be punished severely. They ruin a man's life and reputation forever, cast doubt on true victims of sexual violence, and get away with it. This is unacceptable and an awful precedent to set.
Now, with regards to the teacher thing, I had a teacher in high school who was the object of my nighttime dreams during those hormone driven years. Young or not, if I would had the shot you had better believe I would have been between her legs and plowing her in a heartbeat. Especially since the student body at my school was all boys, I had no girls my own age to crush on or experiment with. My poor right wrist...
Ethically speaking it is of course intolerable for a teacher to have a sexual relationship with a student they are instructing, but I also don't think a consensual (dare we say "educational") relationship once the official duty is complete is the worst thing in the world.
Be well,
Edwin
Oops, is NOT the the worst thing in the world
DeleteGreat comment, Edwin! And we know exactly the effect we have on men when we dress a certain way.
DeleteI had the same reaction to the public pummeling of Matt Damon over what seemed like pretty innocuous comments. All the guy said was there are gradations and nuances, which seems pretty commonsensical, though I recognize common sense is not that common. To me the inflext point in all this, when the pendulum starts swinging the other way, was the 24 year-old intern who appeared on Good Morning America and suggested she was a victim after having what she admitted was an entirely consensual sexual relationship with Matt Lauer, who she knew was married when she fucked him. Just as you wanted to see how your commenters would react to your political observations, I checked out the comments on Yahoo on that particular story, and was more than a little surprised to see that about 100% of them were not only 100% against this young woman trying to portray herself as a victim, but many viciously so. Therefore, it apparently isn't just the BDSM world who doesn't buy that every time a man in power has sex with someone, it is automatically abusive.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny you raise the example of high school teachers and sex with teenage boys. For some reason, I was thinking of that just a few days ago regarding how complex our reaction to this stuff is. I had watched an episode of the Sopranos in which the Soprano crew almost kills a high school soccer coach for sleeping with one of his girl players. Yet, I had a couple of teachers I would have killed to sleep with (and one that I was rumored to have succeeded with), and I promise you I would NOT have felt like a victim had it happened. So, am I a politically incorrect justifier of teen sexual abuse by not agreeing that every student who sleeps with a teacher is a victim, or am I a mysoginist for tending to see a female student as a victim in that situation but not a male?
It is a complex issue. And ok I think to have different points of views on female versus male teachers.
DeleteI agree with you entirely, you display sound pragmatic realism, including the choices re rape.
ReplyDeleteThanks lurky!
DeleteWhat's this serious shit? ;)
ReplyDeleteIt's a complex topic and, now being in the spotlight, people are grappling to figure it out. The media has picked up the torch, and it's spreading the fire. Many women in the workplace, and elsewhere, have been dealing with this for years. Not having been there, and as a guy, I'm sure I can't understand their frustrations, but this is their time to fight back. No more tolerance for men exploiting their power to get what they want. No more having to tolerate men's horny crap in order to feel your job is safe. I'm all on board with that but, at the same time, I also want men to be protected from women who falsely accuse or who might use the climate we're in to exploit an advantage that they'll be believed over the man.
I agree with just about everything Matt Damon said. I wonder if the backlash comes from people who don't spend the time to get the whole point of what he's saying. If we can keep a rational perspective, there's a range of sexual assault that goes from serious to much more serious. We have to still be able to distinguish the difference between dangerous criminals and those who have made mistakes at a time when men's awareness of inappropriate and insensitive sexual behavior wasn't what it is today. The difference when men admit their mistakes and claim to have learned, and those who only deny, make excuses, and attack their accusers. Of course it diminishes rape to equate it with patting someone on the butt. That's just common sense, but don't let that distract from today's message: women will no longer tolerate inappropriate sexual advances of ANY kind. As they shouldn't.
Regarding how women dress and act, and whether they're "asking for it or not," I agree that they need to be smart about any risks they take. That risk is the problem. Reducing that risk is a responsibility of the law, which must maintain that "No means no." We agree that there is no excuse for rape. I would add that calling out a woman for being unsafe may be the truth, but it can distract from the real problem. Rapists are the problem. No one should have to adjust their behavior for fear of being raped.
Re: Female teachers: As a teenager, I would have welcomed any sexual attention from a woman to whom I was attracted. It never happened, and I feel deprived. My childhood was practically ruined due to this egregious neglect. But no hot teacher ever really cared enough to show me a little love. What's up with that? I am NOT an animal !!!
I think there's probably some good rationale for not allowing female adults in a position of authority to become sexually involved with their charges, boys or girls. I love the fantasy, but is that what we really want from our teachers? A minor is deemed by the law to not be capable of consent, so the responsibility lies with the adult. The world needs more responsible adults, especially those acting as mentors for children. I would not have felt victimized in that situation, and I doubt any of my friends would have either. Maybe it's the educational system that's the victim here.
Great post. Thanks, Julie.
And great comment, brett, thank you!
DeleteYou nailed it. I agree. LIFE IS LIKE A PENDULUM. Rarely in equilibrium as it swings from one side to the other.
ReplyDeleteMakes me dizzy!
DeleteSexual harassment as described in the majority of your post has little impact on my life. . It may sound harsh, but I do not really care about politicians or celebrities. I am concerned with a growing portion of this society willing to accept sex between students and teachers. I have 2 children in school. One male. One female. One is 16 and one is 18. Each day, we send them to school in the believe that they are being taught and protected by responsible adults. The teacher/pupil relationship is a sacred one and an incredibly important one.. I do not know many adults who have not said that somewhere along the line a teacher had an impact on them. We send our kids to school to learn, to be inspired, to become good citizens of their society. For a teacher to violate that trust, whether the student is a male or a female,is an unconscionable betrayal. That person should be held accountable for that violation of trust and sacred duty.
ReplyDeletewayne
Totally agree. But being "held accountable" for a female teacher having consensual sex with an eager and willing older teenaged male should result in firing, not 15 years in federal penitentiary. Just saying we should be applying a reasonableness standard. A male teacher forcing himself on a young teenaged girl? Full weight of the law.
Delete
DeleteWhen I was in high school, I would have loved for an attractive teacher have sex with me. There is no way I would have felt abused or taken advantage of. As far as teenage boys goes, the legal prosecution of these cases is out of hand in my opinion. William.
Agreed
DeleteWow... first hot lady(we have seen your butt xD) with brains ..
ReplyDelete-Your 17 y/o fan
<3 ;)
Heed the warnings at the entry page, young man, and shield your eyes. You are too young for this blog. Disney's site is more appropriate for you.
DeleteWell..
DeleteXD what to say..
I just love you... xP
I agree with what your saying and with what Matt said, but isn't this really the beginning of how females wish to be treated. Speaking out, questioning the males as to what is acceptable and what is not. Evolution, the roles we play, been taught, are changing. Yes this also involves a two way street, takes two, and so not everything has been told, or better yet parts have been left out. A Female Teacher, I thought a female would know better, but once again, sexual desires take over everyone. I admit there were a couple of female teachers I would have enjoyed getting to know. One that could grace the cover of Playboy and the other older, stricter, and would fulfill my desire of being spanked. So it is good you spoke out, I like the comments, it is a subject that should have been addressed along time ago. Male and female sexual desires can and does take it down the wrong path, we best try and remember that, knowing it is very hard to do.
ReplyDeleteI have many times had men say or do innapropriate things towards me. Never felt victmized by it. A firm putting in their place is actually fun.
DeleteMs Julie - would you have felt victimized if you had NOT put them in their place? In other words, does the fact you addressed the situation in a manner appropriate/satisfying to you keep you from feeling like a victim?
Delete- t.
In some cases I did not have the opportunity, but still did not feel "victimized". Such a useless emotion. Not to say psychological harm was not done to me, but no sense whining about an injury. Just get better (or pretend to be) and move on.
DeleteMy long posts didn’t get post I think but I was talking about what about female teacher and student realotionship what if student has interests in spanking get chance be spanked by teacher cause she happen be into it too but teacher does it anyhow both knows it wrong
ReplyDeleteWhat allow over generations is different but to me certain female may allow ok a pat on ass by male cause know them as friends but completely stranger walking up smack her on ass she react differently report them for sexual assault
How come never hear about one female never report being sexual abuse by female..but to me a lot female like you female has job in sex business people going assume you want or they be ok with slap on ass or certain comment you have this blog if reader able see you figure out who you are may get sexual with you thinking you be ok with it. Not saying u or any female in sex business would be ok with it
A slap on the ass from a stranger I can handle myself. It's not right, but I will handle it with no need for the police unless it escalates.
DeleteAlso, cute girls can get away with A LOT in the butt smacking department (I speak from experience!)
Ms Julie - Happy New Year! So, cute girls can get away with smacking a guy's butt - or maybe grabbing his butt or crotch? Or, can cute girls who have had their butts smacked get away with a WIDE VARIETY of payback? Or something else? My guess - ALL of the above!
Delete- t.
Exactly! But only in the appropriate setting.
Deletewhat and how you think a female teacher should say if male student ask them to spank them? for either punishment reason or for fun interesting hear your take
Deleteto me i think female teacher would deny turn down the request but if she just into it as much or not type of teacher to do report student she may actually go ahead and spank student her reason be he ask me too or other reason. keep mind some of this assault is done off school ground least some is same as in work place some happen after hours
She should definitely say no and send a note home to his mother! He may get that spanking anyways.
DeleteTrue may get that spanking anyway but may had crush on teacher wanted spanked by teacher instead but his mother may be able give him better spanking
DeleteJust chiming in here with one more point. I'd much rather be living in a "culture of outrage" than one of apathy. We have way too much of the latter in this culture, where people don't bother to educate themselves, to vote, or to participate in any movement for the betterment of the planet or species. We have plenty who feel victimized when their comfortable prejudices are challenged. This "outrage" over what women have had to endure is much needed and long overdue. There are always going to be the overzealous, the loudest few who get all the attention and make it seem like the cause is an irrational one, but as we see in the posts here, most people are capable of reason.
ReplyDeleteOk, but let's not ruin people's lives in the process.
DeleteUnfortunately, outrage can lead to this. Good people suffer in the onslaught. Breaking eggs to make an omelet might be the metaphor. By allowing, even enabling, men to misuse their power for so long, there's a consequence on society that's far-reaching. The cost of apathy. Often the only answer for these deep-seated cultural dysfunctions seems to be the blunt force of outrage. Some of our friends pay the price.
DeleteI feel you can't ever create justice from injustice. Justice comes from people acting reasonably.
DeleteThe lives we live today are the product of revolutions. I'm not condoning injustice. Whatever we can do about it, we should, calling out the unreasonable actions when we see them, but not to stop the revolution.
DeleteAgree to disagree. Revolutions are usually pretty bad. Better to strive to do things peacefully IMO.
DeleteNo disagreement that striving for peace is best. Not all revolutions are violent. Violent ones are usually a response to intolerable conditions, so there's no easy answer. For a long time many women have been fed up with what males have been getting away with, but this revolution of sorts has really gotten off the ground recently. I figure the misogyny shown by political leaders, and the acceptance of such here in the States has riled many females, emboldened them to speak out, so we're seeing the result of that now. The fever will likely die down - maybe already has. So things to sadden... good people like Al Franken forced out. Things to encourage... life better for millions, especially for women in the workplace. I guess par for the course of human history.
DeleteHaving read the line stating “All comments are welcome.” I thought I would suspend the moratorium on making comments just long enough to add to this dialogue.
ReplyDeleteEssentially I agree with most of the points made with the exception of the teacher. I will save that point for the last.
Yes women lie (surprise, surprise) as do men. However when it comes to a sexual assault complaint I highly doubt that the majority of complainants are indeed lying. What is really wrong here is the identification of the accused before due process has been completed. How may careers and lives have been ruined because someone was falsely accused of a sex assault? They are only remembered for the accusation and possible involvement, and not for being innocent, or not guilty of the charge. Once the accused has been found guilty, through due process, than by all means plaster their name everywhere; otherwise they should be allowed the same anonymity as the alleged victim.
In regard to the Hollywood scandals and the provocatively dressed, flirtatious, drunk, go to a guy’s room, etc. Women, I couldn’t agree more. As mentioned if you don’t want to trade sex for work then don’t do it. As for the other situation it is akin to a bullfighter taunting and working a bull up into frenzy. They should not be totally shocked if they get gored by the bull and totally blame the bull. Take some responsibility for your actions.
In respect of a teacher, of any gender, having sex with a student, of any gender, it is not a victimless crime. These teachers are in a position of authority and trust over their students. They are trusted by the parents to provide their children with an education without having to worry that their children are under the control of a sexual predator. Make no mistake here, regardless of gender, they are equally predators there is no difference. Just because the female students may not be high fiving in the locker room over having banged their male art teacher, as their male counterparts might, does not make it more serious, or in the latter situation less. I’m quite certain no one would be suggesting that the other female students in a class would be the victims and that the male teacher should bang them as punishment! In fact I’m sure that after having already banged 4 of her students having to fuck the remaining students would not be much of a punishment for her!
And now back to the moratorium! ;-)
I think there is a difference between the sexes on the teacher thing. Too much scope for abuse with teenage girls. Not so concerned about the boys.
DeleteI would be interested to hear your justification for such a statement. Teenage girls can be sexually abused by their teachers, but teenage boys cannot? Age you suggesting that there is a scale of abuse when it comes to children based on their sex? So, if its ok for a female teacher to have sex with a 16 yr old male, is it ok for her to have sex with a 12 yr old male? Is the age of the teacher a factor.? Is it ok for a 23 yr old to have sex with a 14 yr old boy, but not good if she's 45? I am most uncomfortable and puzzled by what appears to be the suggestion that the scope of abuse for a teen age male is less than a teen age female and therefore of less concern. Any clarification on that would be welcome. For most people, the bottom line is clear people, male or female, who are in positions of power and trust should not engage in sexual activity with males or females who are defined by their society as unable to give consent.
Deletewayne
There are laws of the land and we must follow those until and unless they are changed. In terms of advocating for change, yes I think the laws for what constitutes an offense are overly rigid. People mature at different rates, and what may be ok for one person may not be ok for another. Of course I am not advocating a law change that would bring harm to vulnerable children, as many of your suggestions would seem to do. However, just as our drinking laws are ridiculous (in Ontario we need to be 19 to drink - in Europe it is ok at any age), so too are some of the laws around sex. Having an older person guide a well prepared, well educated, mature younger person in their first sexual encounter could be a very positive thing, and in some cultures it has been exactly that. Only in our prudish culture do we get absolutist boors spouting off about making hard and fast rules for nuanced situations.
DeleteJulie if you are opposed to"hard and fast rules for nuanced situations, why do you have a disclaimer on your blog that says this blog is for adults only? And for clarification, which one of my point(s) is suggesting that your arguments are advocating for placing vulnerable children in harm's way. Did I misunderstand that you argued that there is noting wrong with a female teacher having sex with a so called willing minor minor? Finally neither you or any of those readers who agree with your argument ever identify what age to which you are referring?. Is there an age for a student that makes any of you uncomfortable. I have only heard the general term "older" student. If you say 17. why not 16? Why not 15? why not 14? why not 13? There is danger in suchan argument.
DeleteWayne.
Julie, there is a huge difference between drinking laws and laws that govern sexual activities between adults and children and sexual activities between adults who are charged with the physical and emotional welfare and protection of children. And yes, a 16 yr old male or a 17 yr old female is still a child. Wayne
DeleteIt's only because you are so hung up about sex being this super special mystical thing. If we weren't all so hung up about it, and treated it with common sense (as we ought to with drinking and drugs as well), we would have far fewer problems.
DeleteAs to age, people mature at different rates. Whatever the legal age is, I guarantee there will be individuals not mature enough to deal! Thus the need for judgement and common sense and an attitude of "do no harm". A healthy society, with good people in it and healthy views about sexuality could work with that.
It has little to do with viewing sex as something mystical. I do not want the men and women in whom we place our trust to care for our children having sex with our 16 yr old daughter or our 17 yr old son. We do not want the ray moores of the world haunting our malls searching for teen age girls to seduce and harass. And its exactly because wedo not have and will never have this:"Thus the need for judgement and common sense and an attitude of "do no harm". A healthy society, with good people in it and healthy views about sexuality could work with that." that we need laws to protect those not in position to protect themselves or who are, as defined their society and culture too young to give consent.
DeleteWayne.
My point, wayne, is that regardless of age and laws, our first duty is to act morally and ethically at all times, and to do no harm. Even in cases where it is legal, there might still be great harm, and by sticking so much to the letter of the law, you are implicitly allowing that. It's legal? Great! You're off the hook for being moral.
DeleteI’m going to limit my comments since so much has already been said. Most of which I agree with. It is also possible to almost write a book addressing the various aspects of this subject.
ReplyDeleteTo me everything discussed here falls into the category of personal responsibility. Something that is not currently taught, expected or even valued by most of our popular culture.
It is no surprise to me that one of the few places that I have seen reasoned civil discussion on this topic is on this blog. With most of the readers I think No means yes/harder and Red means No. To get to that point it took honest communication, respect and trust. These things are sorely lacking in most people, especially our youth.
For the last few decades society has made the decision not to hold people accountable. Accountability is something this blogs readers deal with in their relationships on a daily basis. Very effectively I would add,as we have seen recently with one of our own. (Patiently waiting for details on that sisterly conversation.)
Tom
Right on Tom! Good addition to the discussion.
DeletePlanning another blog soonest!
You’re right, as is Matt Damon that too many serious and minor offenses are being conflated. Certainly my wife agrees as well.
ReplyDeleteSome of it is good, however. Men like Weinstein, Rose and Lauer have patterns of behavior that are way beyond acceptable.
Rosco
Agree totally. Take 'em down!
DeleteHello,
ReplyDeleteA good slap in the face can be a weapon of formidable effectiveness against unwanted humiliation. In addition, the slap is a natural movement very loose and therefore quite fast and powerful.
As for the punch, watch out for the broken bones in your hand! : the bones of the skull are generally stronger than those of a hand (the skull is a bone envelope 5 mm thick designed to protect our brain from shocks!).
Christine Angot is a great French writer who writes about the incest she suffered from her father for several years. She says :
"I am not part of a skewer of victims and I refuse to position myself saying 'hello I am a victim and I feel this and that"
But the difference with you is that if she refuses to call herself a victim, it is not to forget and move on but to tell, with HER WORDS, what this incest says about the society that makes it possible.
Not a difference with me. I can definitely get behind self-expression, but being careful not to slander innocents in the process.
DeleteYou're absolutely right on. Unfortunately, there is a large swath of society now that will never agree with your common sense approach. It's one reason I left North America.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous C
Come back! We need you!!!
DeleteDamon is catching it more for his association with Weinstein. Probably should have stayed out of it given his proximity to that creep. The hell he put Selma through when she was trying to make Frieda especially irks me. Using someone's passion for their art to try and extort sex from someone is heinous. It is disappointing to know so many great directors continued to work with the guy.
ReplyDeleteyup
DeleteBTW I think your work here is over the top sexy.
ReplyDeleteThank you!
DeleteWe have long been in a period when sex is viewed as a Dangerous and Addictive Drug. Why not just form Junior Anti Sex Leagues (as in Orwell's 1984). A woman in Bolivar Missouri "touched" the crotch of her nephew recently (allegedly, I should add) and was charged with INCEST and SODOMY. Incredible. She will probably plea bargain and have to register as a sex offender for life. Or maybe they'll lock her up for 10 years. Amerika in insane.
DeleteYup. See my response to "Wayne" above.
DeleteJulie, as someone who adamantly argues for the importance of consent are we to assume you believe all people are capable of giving consent. Are you arguing that a 15 yr old girl is capable of giving consent for sexual activity with her 32 yr old male teacher? Or that a 17 yr old girl can give consent to a 45 yr old lawyer? How about the 33 yr old female doctor who asks the 16 yr old boy who is there for a sports physical if he wants to have sex? How about the 45 yr old uncle and the 13 yr old niece? Can she give consent? No matter how quickly these people get to maturity or how "mature" they are , they are still children. As a society, we cannot depend on the "good judgement" and the "common sense" of a "healthy society" filled "with good people" to "do no harm!" That kind of Shangri-La, if it ever existed, disappeared into the mists a long time ago.
DeleteIn Ontario the age of consent is 16, so by law the 17 year old girl can consent to have sex with a 45 year old male lawyer, yes. In all cases both parties should act ethically and morally and seek to do no harm, regardless of age or age difference. That 17 year old girl may be very mature for her age, and might get to travel the world and learn all manner of things from that older man, and it might be an incredibly healthy period in her life and be forever grateful to her mentor. Or with different people it may be pure abuse.
DeleteIt's an interesting discussion. I've often thought that, in America, we're too prude and hung up about sex, and that there must be a healthier and more rational way of approaching sexual issues. However, I also believe there's no perfect answer that will work for everyone because people are not all the same. Society must draw the line somewhere that distinguishes between minors and adults. That line is probably going to be somewhat arbitrary for every culture, but whatever it is, it is. The law must determine an age that protects the most children and is democratically arrived at to satisfy the people's will. The worst that can happen then is that kids have to wait to a certain age to be sexually involved with an adult, and adults have to keep their hands off of anyone deemed by society as a minor. Recognize that people can be exploited as children or as employees. Just follow the law, or if you don't like it, work to change it. It's the best we can do.
DeleteWell put!
DeleteIf the age of consent in Ontario is 16 then legally the 45 yr old male has not broken the law by having sex with a 17 yr old girl. He is, however , a pervert. he is a person who preys upon those those decades younger than him because there are serious mental and emotional issues. Julie I believe that in the past you have said that you and your husband do not have children. If you did, you would have no problem with your daughter being involved with a man so much older than her? I have been on this earth a lot longer than you and probably a lot longer than most of your readers. I have never met a 17 yr old who was mature enough to be involved with someone decades older than them. That idea the a child of 17 is "mature beyond her years of his years is at best a laughable myth. And this, Julie "and might get to travel the world and learn all manner of things from that older man, and it might be an incredibly healthy period in her life and be forever grateful to her mentor." is so wrong that it too is laughable. Do you write comments like this to set people's teeth on edge?
DeleteWayne
I can't help but comment on the irony of a guy reading a kinky blog that is no doubt considered "perverted" by most of vanilla society using the word "pervert" as if it's a terrible insult.
DeleteWayne, what really riles you up isn't a 17-year old "child" having sex, it's the idea of a 17-year old having sex with a much older man.
Unless you seriously think a girl that's 17 years and 11 months old is just a helpless child but as soon as she turns 18 she will be a mature and responsible adult, you aren't okay with 18 year old "adults" having sex with older men either. In other words: you're not really worried about protecting "children", you're simply uncomfortable with the idea of young girls having sex with older men. That's a value judgemente that's really just about protecting your own comfort.
Interestingly, the opposite relationship doesn't seem to bother you in the least.
You're mostly correct, but I strongly disagree when you imply that a girl who dresses provocatively and teases then says no is partly to blame for being raped.
ReplyDeleteThere should be no equivocation about that. Just because a woman wants to have some fun doesn't mean she's compelled to have sex.
If she says no, it's no. Now, if she had willing drunken sex, and later doesn't remember or regrets and decides that she was "raped", that's something else entirely.
One of the things that irk me in the current hysteria is the cheapening the word "survivor". Everybody is a survivor now. Survivor of sexual harassment. Survivor of sexual misconduct. Survivor of unwanted sexual advance.
Please.
Agreed with most. But a girl who puts herself at risk is not in any way responsible for the rape, but SHE IS responsible for putting herself at risk!
DeleteAlso, you seem to believe that the law should be applied differently to boys and girls. How about a male teacher and a willing female student? Is it still different from a female teacher and a willing male student?
DeleteI think we need to take into account how likely it is to be abuse when we engage in lawmaking. I think it would be more likely for the young female to be abused by an older male than a young male by an older woman, so yes I think there should be a difference.
DeleteI agree that a woman should be able to dress however she wants, and to be as sexually provocative as she wants within the law. Unless she allows someone to touch her, she can't be touched. I think we should have zero tolerance for any guy who can't control his desire. Survival in life is often having the strength to resist temptation. Walk away if it's too much to bear. If we come down hard on rapists and abusers, the hope is to reduce the risk for women who exercise their right to free expression.
ReplyDeleteI never thought the Strict Julie spanking and humiliation blog would become so damned political. Haha!
Agreed. And also lets teach young women the risks of risky behaviour!
DeleteI few months ago I remember a post on Fetlife that made me cringe hard. Apparently some Canadian personality had been outed as kinky, and was accused of violating consent.
ReplyDeleteOne woman wrote about how the story made her realize she had been "abused". She went to meet a dom to "do rope", but didn't specify there would be sex involved.
He goes to her house, she showers while he waits, then comes out wearing only panties. He ties her up, and eventually starts touching her.
When he touches her she feels extremely uncomfortable but doesn't say anything. Only when he puts her hands under her panties she's had enough and tells him to stop. He stops right away, unties her, asks how she's doing, they chat a bit and he leaves. Later they text and she even acknowledges he respected her boundaries.
She was fine until she saw the stories about the aforementioned personality and realized that she, too, had been abused because he touched her body without her explicitly saying she wanted it. And all the comments were along the lines of "omg so sorry this happened to you, you're so brave".
And I wondered how many people, like me, the whole thing was beyond ridiculous, but didn't say anything to avoid enraging the lynch mob. It seems that being a victim now gives so much power and status that some are bending ober backwards to be recognized as one.
This thing where practical strangers get together to "do rope" isn't anything I have experience with, but it must be a social interaction that doesn't always come with much commonly understood protocol. I do know enough though that if two responsible adults are involved in a scene play, they make sure to specify the boundaries up front. I see both the woman and the dom as victims in this case... of their own recklessness. The "dom" was especially at fault for assuming he could engage in sexual touching in a scene where no such thing was agreed to. Is he intentionally preying on women who don't understand the normal safeguards, or was it just a first-time mistake for a fantasy kid who got in over his head?
DeleteI only know what she wrote. Most of the comments were people praising her "bravery", saying how sorry they were that she "went through that" and offering "support", so she never went into more details.
DeleteThere was certainly no abuse and no victims, and for the love of god, where's the common sense? They indeed made a mistake not making the boundaries clear before had, but Jesus, she invites some guy to tie her up, greets him naked and is surprised that he assumed she wanted sex? I promise you, 9 out of 10 men would think the same. She doesn't even say no when he touches her, he stops when she she says stop, and years later she suddenly decides she's an abuse victim? And we're suppose to praise and encourage that kind of behavior? Wtf?
I doubt he was a predator, as she her herself said, he stopped as soon as she asked him to.
We don't actually know much about these people, but it appears they approached the situation all wrong and had different ideas of what was supposed to happen. I don't understand the reluctance, though, to acknowledge the feelings of the woman and offer her some support. She, apparently, was timid and didn't know what she was getting into. She wasn't able to identify and articulate her feelings about what she experienced until she saw that someone else had experienced the same. The light bulb came on.
DeleteI don't buy that 9 out of 10 men would just assume she wanted sex with her bondage, because many men understand that's not a given. I'm into spanking, and I would never assume sex is part of the scene. I would expect a real possible problem if I acted without knowing. Now whether this guy committed a crime and should be prosecuted is another issue. I take it he's not in danger of that happening.
I too find no victims here, just a couple of dumb bunnies!
Delete