I was asked by a reader to blog my thoughts about the trans issue. I think he just wants to get me in trouble! But here goes anyways.
First of all, I have great sympathy for those who feel they were born in the wrong body. I know a girl who's transitioned to a man, and I do not begrudge them at all. This was many years ago, before trans became a thing. From a very early age they had a complete and violent aversion to being put into a dress (as young as two). As a teenager they were admitted to the psychiatric ward in a near catatonic state dealing with the onset of puberty. Went through tons and tons of counselling. Eventually transitioned as a young adult with a breast removal, a complete hysterectomy, and male hormone therapy. As soon as they were on that path and accepted, they became better. He is now a very happy and successful person. Married to a beautiful wife, and has a successful career. Still a short and slight guy, but somewhat passable. And definitely attractive. But that's not the point. The point is he is happy.
I don't view breast removal as much different than breast augmentation. It's how you would like to present. Many women undergo hysterectomies for a variety of reasons, and unless you're keen on procreating, good riddance to bad baggage, I say. Hormone replacement is often needed, of course.
I think the moulding of the skin from your arm into a fake penis is a step too far. I can't imagine all the health problems that come with trying to get rid of your vag, omg! And worst still for a guy to chop off his dick and get a phony vag excavated. No. Just, no.
I don't personally know any male to female trans with a similar story, but I don't doubt they exist. I do know a bunch of early-twenties males who are "trans". They were all mentally unstable before and had zero social life. Never displayed those same early symptoms as my friend. Did not go through the extensive counselling, did not ever find themselves catatonic at puberty. They declared themselves "trans" and suddenly felt celebrated and had friends, for a bit. They started their transition with hormones. Now they're just obviously male, ugly chicks. And every bit as unhappy as before. One even has crippling headaches for an "unknown reason" (give me a break! Do you imagine the high doses of female hormones has anything to do with it??? Won't even try going off them to see.)
I think step one is to treat it as a psychological/psychiatric condition, gender dysmorphia, and try very, very hard to address that without any surgeries or hormones. This is what my friend did for years, and did not transition until they had done this and became an adult. The counselling is for you to accept yourself in the body you were given (I apply the same rule to breast augmentation for women, btw!).
If you try to say that's not right and compare it to counselling to make you not gay, I reject that comparison. Gay people were born gay. That IS their natural state. They should be counselled to accept themselves as they are, just as we should counsel biological males and females to accept the body they were born in.
Transitioning non-adults is messed up, especially with trans being such a socially approved-of fad nowadays. Children and adolescents are messed up psychologically to begin with, and very susceptible to suggestion and peer/societal pressure. Extensive counselling to get them to accept their own bodies as they are is what kids and teens need.
Even with adults, doctors should not perform unnecessary surgeries. You should have years of counselling under your belt and despite that continue to show serious signs of untreatable psychological issues related to this before surgery and hormones. That should be the last resort for ethical doctors.
Folks who grew up as biological males should not compete in any women's sports where men regularly outdo women, period. It's too much of an advantage and destroys women's sports.
If trans people are in bathrooms or locker rooms, they should be extremely discrete. Stories of a trans woman with their full male junk out showering in the same common shower area as girls is not on. They should never be putting themselves in such a situation to begin with, and need to be roundly condemned for doing so.
There are many men who get a sexual charge from dressing up as women, OBVIOUSLY! There are also pervs and pedos who get off on being in women's locker rooms and bathrooms, OBVIOUSLY! I'm sorry if you're a legit trans woman, but that's life, and it's part of what you need to accept if you choose to transition. The legit ones know this and acknowledge this (eg, Blaire White and Caitlyn Jenner), and behave accordingly and with sensitivity.
As for you pervs out there who like to be forced into panties for punishment and humiliation, that's not the same at all, and I LOVE you guys!
We all have the Yin and the Yang inside of us, both female and male aspects. In some, one is way stronger than the other, and it doesn't always align with our biological sex. I also think a well-integrated person can choose to bring out those different parts of us at different times.
My inner man is out in force when I pick up the strap and put on my strap-on!
My husband's inner woman is out in force when he submits to my strap and my strap-on.
My inner woman is out in force when I get spanked and fucked.
My husbands inner man is out in force when he puts me across his knee and then fucks me in the ass.
The panty training helps him to bring out the inner woman that he is craving to explore. The ultimate would be a temporary magical bodily transformation so he can truly experience his femininity that's bottled up inside. By getting absolutely railed by me who underwent the opposite!
Perhaps trans is an extension of this, but I don't think so. It feels radically different. What I described is healthy human sexuality. Trans feels like a mental disease.
I figured I would be disagreeing with you on this, but nope, I'm in agreement almost 100 percent.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe you truly and finally 'know' what you are until after puberty. Puberty will either 'enhance' your already pre-existing desires, or sometimes it broadens them a bit.
There's also the issue of not only the social pressure you mention to declare oneself 'trans', but also 'sexual essentialism' where certain behaviors are linked ONLY to men and others linked only to women, when we know that is not the case.
This can confuse children and young adolescents who do not know any better. And getting irreversible life-altering surgeries when misinformed or confused is not a fate I'd wish on anyone.
And let's not be mistaken that is what the surgeries to create a 'trans' body are. They are permanent and cannot be undone. Whether its a fake penis or vagina created out of other bodily tissue, it can't be reversed, and the original (or a replacement) FUNCTIONING organ brought back. You also permanently lose any chances of regular biological reproduction. MtF Trans don't have eggs, so can't create a natural baby and they have non-functioning fake 'wombs' if they have any at all, so they can't carry a baby to term even if they magically summoned one from the quantum vaccum. Similarly, Ftm Trans don't have functioning penises. They produce no sperm so , once again, can't reproduce, and they for the most part, don't get the vastly increased strength and potential for power that the male body gives. They can be injected with testosterone, but that doesn't , for example, give them the mechanical advantage of stronger joints and bones that male infants get in the womb.
No children should be doing this to themselves, nor should any parents be free to 'approve' such surgery until , at the minimum, puberty is done, not suppressed.
And I haven't even gotten into the fact there is definitely some mental illness involved in all of this.
Hurray. We 100% agree!
DeleteI'm pretty much going to agree with you here Julie. There's nothing wrong with being a transsexual, and there's nothing wrong with transitioning. But...going through a process like a gender transition, without prior psychological or psychiatric counseling, is probably not a good idea. The process is not easily reversible, and depending on when and what has been done, it might well be irreversible. And as a society we really should do what we can to prevent people from ending up in the situation where they transition in the expectation that it will solve one or more problems they feel like they have, only for them to realize that they still have the exact same problems, except that they now can't recognize themselves in the mirror anymore either :-(
ReplyDeleteI won't call transsexualism a mental disorder in itself, but in some cases, the perceived genderdimorphism isn't the root cause of the problems, but rather something else. And in some cases, kids who have been...let's call it "unusual" in their behaviour while growing up (thinking along the lines of female tomboys and boys displaying more classically "female" behaviour), simply grow out of it during their teen years, and settle into their respective sexes and genders as they reach their 20's, and subsequently can't imagine how their lives might have been screwed up by a pre-adult transition to another gender.
Another situation we sure as hell should also try and prevent, as a society, is one where perceived genderdimorphism becomes a "fad", and young people wrongly end up believing that they are transsexual, rather than simply being regular kids, who are trying to grow up and establish their identities as individuals.
And as I saw a short video saying earlier today: "Today we might have whatever the hell many genders, where people might be allowed to feel like whatever the heck they feel like. But in a hundred years, if we get dug up by an archeologist, they are going to look at our remains and conclude that we were either male or female."
I still think that if you are so miserable with the perfectly normal body you are born into, it's a mental illness. Operating word "illness", and I feel great sympathy, and if after all other options are exhausted, then if mutilating your body helps, so be it.
DeleteOn point and stated in a way that is as unoffensive as possible. Good girl session for you.
ReplyDeleteThank you!
DeleteI agree with all of your points, Julie, and applaud the reasoned and empathetic way in which you laid them out.
ReplyDeleteI'll add that the trans issue has gone far beyond the psychological/medical and has now become fully entrenched as a sociopolitical cause celebre. Politicians trip over themselves in their rush to embrace all things trans, major corporations are using trans individuals to hawk their wares (to the regret of some), every progressive worthy of the label makes sure to have their pronouns front and centre, and anyone who offers even the slightest resistance or doubts the wisdom of this tsunami of trans is roundly condemned, labeled, and even physically assaulted.
There has been much hysterical screeching over how denying trans men full access to women's spaces is causing a virtual genocide, how children who are too young to drive, drink, vote, get a credit card, or even be permitted to be left unsupervised overnight are killing themselves in droves because they are being denied the "basic human right" of physically and permanently changing their biological sex.
We have men who are imposing male specimens suddenly competing against women who have trained for years but don't stand a chance against these guys who are twice their size. We have a liberal press that applauds these people as stunning and brave and declares them 'woman' of the year.
We have a fat, unsightly man in a housecoat in Vancouver BC who routinely drags women (real women) to human rights tribunals for refusing to shave his male genitalia in their salons. He also trolls online for pubescent girls, offering to 'help' them with their first tampons. He claims he, too, menstruates.
Somewhere along the way we as a society have decided that being a victim of our own ridiculous choices and thus a protected creature with special privileges is the highest achievement we can aspire to and this is the result. We are well and truly fucked.
Yes, the politicization of a rare mental illness is not a good look for them.
DeleteSo, we've had puberty blockers for awhile, and have used them on normal kids with precocious puberty before using them for trans kids. The reason to use them is that if the kid is trans, forcing them to go through puberty increases the difficulty of them passing. It's to make it less likely that they end up as "male, ugly chicks" as you say. However, puberty blockers should be after counseling to make certain that the individual is trans. The nice thing about them is they are reversible at that stage. If you don't take Hormone replacement, blockers just give more time figure it out. Even if you do, much of it can be reversed before you reach a critical stage. Also, you stated that the transtrenders you've encountered, the 20 year olds that are still miserable, didn't show the same signs as your friend, right? Well, fine, what do we do when we do find ones that do? Mimic it exactly? With such clear cut cases such as your friend, intervention should happen earlier, before puberty hits. I'd be interested how they would respond to the question of "Do you wish you transitioned before puberty?"
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, I think these choices are the individual's to make, not for those not in the medical field to force their own sense of morals into. I think the comparison to pushing for only a therapeutic approach to treating them is similar to the counseling to try and stop people from being gay, because in both cases, these people are born that way. Biology messes up way more than people like, with intersex people proving that, and with all of us starting as girls first, it doesn't surprise me that MtF trans people exist at all. Much of the gripes we hear about trans people are the same we heard about gay people. Same playbook, different group. Having met many of them, both gay people and trans, the number I've met that wished they could just be normal is huge, so I can't bring myself to believe either is a choice.
I've asked my friend that. He is happy with how things worked out and is not one of these radical trans. He was glad all avenues were exhausted and that eventually, as a young adult, he got to make up his mind, acknowledging that he was a messed up kid who was not competent to make such a decision at the time.
DeleteI anticipated your argument comparing it to gays, and already dealt with it in the body of my blog post.
Genuine biological intersex is a very tiny fraction, and arguments that apply to them do not apply to normally sexed people.
If one's body is normal and healthy, one needs to make peace with the body one is born into. Radical life altering hormones and surgery should be a very last resort to cure a disease where all else has failed.
I don't believe you that puberty blockers are in any way safe and healthy.
I'm happy your friend is happy with the outcome.
DeleteYou didn't deal with the argument though? You just said you reject that comparison. You said gay people were born that way, and we should teach them to accept themselves as they are, insinuating that one can not be born trans. Then, you stated that being trans feels like a mental disease. However, 70 years ago, people were making that same argument against homosexuals. Homosexual attraction was labeled a mental disorder and in the DSM until 1973. The conversation and fears that are being stirred up are very similar to the what was stirred up against the gays. To reject the comparison doesn't do anything to get rid of it. Studies on the brains of transgender people show that their brains tend to line up more with their desired gender, so the concept of "Born that way" working only for gays is lost on me. I want to be clear here, I don't think you're a bad person for being worried about people making rash decisions. That shows a concern for others. I guess I hope that seeing how the very argument you are using against trans people was once used against gays might have you look into it more.
Intersex people make up roughly 1.7% of the population, with only 0.5% showing reproductive variations. Statistics currently put the percentage of Trans adults at 1.9% of the adult population, so slightly larger. If we're going to discount intersex people from the tapestry of human experiences that we need to concern ourselves with, why not the same for trans people who are a similarly tiny fraction? What of those who regret the transition, which is estimated to be 2% of those that start transitioning, making them a total of 0.038% of the population? Of course we shouldn't, we should try to help all these groups and more as best we can. Further, my point on intersex people wasn't to say that your arguments apply to them, it was to point out that we don't understand biology fully and it makes mistakes. How can we be certain that one of those mistakes is leaving a brain with female patterns or triggering a male pattern change in only it before birth? We can't at this stage of understanding. And, to be clear, I'm not saying XX or XY brains are happening there, I'm saying that there could be something else happening we just don't understand yet.
SRS surgeries are generally the final step for anyone who is transitioning, and many don't even accomplish that because it costs a lot. Radical life altering hormones are kind of the point for the people who are taking them, and many hope for an outcome similar to your friends, where they are happier and healthier for it. I guess the question one needs to answer is when do we say treatment has failed for people who are trans, and take next steps? I would argue at least that if we've tried therapy for 2-3 years and gotten nowhere, we should do something else, like consider that maybe these people are genuine in their transness and let them move forward on their journey, advised by their friends, family, and medical professionals rather than us.
That's fine, you don't have to believe me. The fact of the matter is there are many things that are not safe nor healthy we allow people to choose every day, and I see no difference in letting children be aware of the pros and cons along with there parents to make decisions off of that info. Depression medication and ADHD medication have pros and cons as well, but we aren't legislating on those. If all parties involved agree that puberty blockers are what they want to do, child, parents, and medical professional, that is their choice and I shouldn't be able to force it one way or the other. I just wish them all the best as they try to figure out what to do with a difficult situation.
I'm not saying trans are not born that way, I'm saying they are born with those feelings and are also born with a healthy body and they should be counselled to accept both. Exactly my position on gays.
DeleteThe 1.7% is at the way upper edge of the range. "There is no simple answer to this question. Intersex conditions are not always accurately diagnosed, experts sometimes disagree on exactly what qualifies as an intersex condition and government agencies do not collect statistics about intersex individuals” (American Psychological Association, 2006)." The other edge of the range is 1 in 2000 (0.05% - or about 30x lower than your activist top end). (https://www.identiversity.org/topics/body-parts/how-common-are-intersex-conditions)
Whatever the percentage, it's a different question as in some of those cases their bodies are not normal and there may be a real medical need to perform a surgery (or they just want to be accepted as looking normal).
Children managed before sex change operations and hormones were a possibility. It's an unnecessary procedure. The disorder should be treated psychologically.
I thing mind altering meds are over-prescribed, but if there is a genuine disorder, they may be helpful.
I got in big trouble with some friends for this opinion, but
ReplyDeleteI’ve observed parents who seem to encourage kids to identify as the other sex. Challenging societal norms is great, but if at all possible accept the body you came with. And if you must change it with hormones or surgery, do so after age 25.
Rosco
100%
DeleteI've known a few male-to-female trans. All were surgically modified to have vaginas. One is an old friend who was my roomate in boarding school. I was best man at his wedding. After that, I lost track of him. Years later, I learned he was now a she. We met and she told me her story. I can't pretend to understand how she felt before the change, but after it she was a happy woman. She was born in the wrong skin.
ReplyDeleteOne of my trans friends showed me her naughty bits. Her vagina was absolutely authentic, sans clitoris. If i didn't know she was once a guy, I would have assumed she was a rather large (but not fat) woman. She seemed well adjusted and happy. She took hormone pills and used creams to maintain herself.
I don't pretend to understand what would make someone change sexual identity. It's obviously very important to those who do. I agree that sharing a shower with women if a trans male still has his penis seems a bit tasteless. On the other hand, I have no problem with the idea of unisex facilities where males and females share everything. We should be past the puritan/Catholic views that insist the sexes be separated. I also don't have a problem with anyone choosing which gender they want to assume. I don't pick my friends based on their sexual equipment.
Agreed, but a very banal take. Was hoping for some pushback against the extremes coming from "your side of the table".
DeleteMy side of the table? You mean heterosexual male side? Or educated, politically aware side? I share your view about allowing children to make gender choices. They aren't fully formed people and confusion about everything, including gender is to be expected. My trans friends are attractive women who made the switch well into their 30s.
DeleteI don't think the gender issues break evenly across party lines any more than racist views are Republican alone. It seems to me that a very small number of people decide to change gender. Of that small number, an even smaller number get into debates about which bathroom to use. I don't know about you, but I have much more important things to do than fight over which bath/locker rooms trans people use.
There is a real issue with job discrimination. My friend was an engineer who worked for a tobacco company when he was male. As soon as he started dressing as a woman -- a requirement before physical sexual reassignment--he lost his job. Fortunately he comes from a rich family and was able to survive.
Men don't get to decide who should be allowed to use women-only spaces, no matter how educated, progressive, and above it all they fancy themselves.
DeleteProgressive leftists. I know you aren't one, but the excesses from their side on this issue are worthy of criticism.
DeleteI agree that the discrimination is bad, but given a high correlation between trans and mental health issues, more understandable than racist or sexual based discrimination.
I agree with almost everything you said except for the last sentence. More accurately a disorder, not a disease. I say that mostly because I'd like to argue with you and, literally, own the last word.
ReplyDeleteI am struck by the lack of standardization in approach to mental health counseling prior to initiation of treatment to adolescents. (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/health/transgender-teens-hormones.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)
Tomato or tomato?
DeleteOnce again, Julie summarized in a blog post what would have taken most of us a book to capture. And she did it better and more completely. I really hope this talent she has is rewarded by more than just the accolades of a bunch of masturbating perverts!
ReplyDeleteI do disagree with the “born that way” argument re: gay/lesbian. I believe there are environmental influences that factor in. I remember seeing a separated identical twin study where one twin being gay didn’t have 100% correlation with the other’s sexual identity. If there is a “gay gene” or set of genes, I believe social and environmental factors may play a part in whether it gets switched on or off. Individuals may have a tendency to be gay or have diabetes, or heart disease, but it isn’t a foregone conclusion.
Social and environmental factors are definitely in play with the explosion of trans kids. Social media and attention starved parents are creating a bunch of messed up kids and unethical doctors and hospitals are all too willing to cash in on the opportunity to create people in need of life-long medical “treatment”. I alternate between sad and enraged that this is happening. If you’re an adult and really think hormones and surgery will fix your life, go for it. But: Hey! Teacher! Leave those kids alone!
Bottom line, if you’re not happy in your own skin, chances are really good that your skin is not the problem. - david
I'm sure you're right about environmental factors playing a role in both.
Deletefor me it’s obvious the “born this way” argument is sometimes true. Some know it early on. Others change. Some change back.
DeleteBut being gay, or bi, or engaging in sexual activity in certain ways can be done without disrespecting your body. I think people should be very careful, and wait many years, before surgery or doing hormones - yes, I’m very reluctant to have people do hormones pre-puberty. (I’m a liberal btw)
Rosco
I simply do not care one way or the other about this issue. I wish the media would stop talking about it because it does not matter.
ReplyDeleteOur political class uses culture war issues like this because they don't want to actually have to do anything about the material problems that we all face.
Until we get pervs in women's locker rooms, cheaters in women's sports, confused children being neutered, and children being shown inappropriate sexual materials at too young an age. Then it becomes an issue we have to care about, regrettably.
DeleteI still don’t care. Cheating at sports is not important. We have economic problems that affect everyone to worry about.
DeleteNeed to multitask!
DeleteMedia/parliament/congress can’t multitask—they just harp on and on about pet issues and then we live in a woke capitalist oligarchy.
DeleteFree to disagree but this issue is a tempest in a teapot.
At any given time there is a long list of issues. WW3 ought to be at the top of the list, with rampant govt spending / money printing leading to inflation at second place, free speech right up there, but this issue is in the top 10, likely.
DeleteI realize that I'm chiming in late, but something about this issue really bothers me. Namely, even though I've had trans (surgically transformed) friends, I still can't wrap my head around the idea that you can choose your gender. One of my best friends in the world is a trans female who I knew long before the change. I have spent many hours talking with her about her decision and process. I still don't get it.
ReplyDeleteI don't have to understand. I have to accept the decision or lose a great friend. I am very sure that she has no mental illness. Both before and after the sex change she has been a fully functional member of society. It's important not to label trans people as suffering from a mental disorder. It's patently unfair to say that people who do things we can't understand have a problem if they are productive, happy members of society.
Julie, your mention of pervs in women's locker rooms, etc. is not a reasonable argument. What about gay men in men's locker rooms? I am sure I shared a communal shower with gay and straight men. So what? If they don't do anything inappropriate, it makes no difference if they like penises.
Years ago, when I was part of a new age community, we had communal bathrooms and locker rooms. It was nice to see naked women. I didn't approach any sexually. I was married and faithful to my wife. One time, I sat next to an attractive woman in a three-hole outhouse. It wasn't a big deal for her or me. Why should it be?
What about kids? Well, in those same communities there were kids of all ages. They also shared facilities. They were normal and happy. They knew that boys and girls are different. So what? It's only when adults sexualize nudity that it becomes a problem. There was no emphasis on being naked. Everyone dressed appropriately. In places where clothes needed to be removed, they were without any fuss or bother.
Does it really matter if someone with a Y chromosome is naked in a room with naked X chromosome people? It only matters if the people think it is wrong. This all dates back to our Puritan ancestors. Nudity doesn't equal sex or perversion. I've seen you naked and you've seen me. It's fun but not sick. For us it is sexual because our blogs are sexual in nature. Seeing each other doesn't make us pervs. It's natural and good clean fun.
I appreciate your point of view and agree with it for the most part.
DeleteBut... one needs to be sensitive to those not sharing our moral values. If a Christian girl does not want to see a fully intact biological male showering next to her, she should not be forced to. Likewise, if she does not want to show her naked body to a biological male, she should not have be placed in a position where she can't use her female-designated facilities for eg showering.
The terminology re male/female is a red herring. There are clearly two different definitions at play, so any arguments over names to apply is a contentless semantic argument over word definitions.
I can accept that biological males wish to live as gender females, however, I expect them to value and adhere to social norms as befits the mixing of biological sexes.
It's similarly a semantic argument whether or not to label gender dysmorphia a disease or not. I think we agree on the essentials.
My pervs in locker rooms argument is more about those same pervs doing it only for perv reasons but using "trans rights" illicitly as a smokescreen, which has been enabled by the progressive left.
I want nudity to equal sex and perversion. More fun that way!
You make a really good point about individuals not wanting to see or be seen by people with the opposite sex organs. The solution is fairly simple, and has been in use for a while now.
DeleteLocker rooms offer individual showers. You can cover up until you get into your shower and then close the curtain and bathe. Similarly, private dressing areas are also provided. No one has to see anything.
Unisex bathrooms can be built with stalls and no open urinal areas. I've seen this work well. Nobody seems upset with coed sinks and hand driers.
How do you feel about surgically modified people? I've met both female-to-male and male-to-female. Does the surgery change things? I've had a chance to look closely at a M-to-F trans. I couldn't tell her from a biological female. The F-to-M trans has a harder time. Fake penises aren't very realistic.
A much harder question for me is what it would mean if I had sex with a trans? She has all the same equipment that you have. If I know she was once a male, am I having sex with a man or woman? I have given this a lot of thought and decided that if someone has breasts and a vagina, she's female. Period. And as you may have guessed, that's how I know so much about the quality of a trans who got excellent surgery. She looks and feels like any other female. She isn't as cute as you, but as far as I'm concerned, she is female.
That's one reason this issue bothers me so much. Someone who spends years transitioning and does the hormone therapy and surgery is transformed into the sex he or she selected. I haven't seen my ex-roommate naked, but since she has money, I assume that she appears the same as a genetic female. We're still good friends. If I'm not looking directly at her, when she speaks, I forget that she isn't a guy.
Like you, I love nudity and sex.
Sure, if an area is specifically designed for and labelled as unisex, I would have no problem with that. But in situations where that is not the case, my point stands.
DeleteI have no experience with seeing post-operative trans naughty bits so have no opinion. I can't imagine it's very healthy, though.
Sure, if they look cute to me, I don't care. I'll deal with people as they come. No a priori feelings with that.
I like being ashamed of my nudity. Big part of my kink. Don't try to talk me out if it! I am soooo ashamed of my recent diaper pics, fyi ;-)
I consider Caged Line to be a bit delusional or ill-educated on this subject. Since people around here seem confused about why the human race has two and only two sexes (I don't care about the 100000000000+ genders unless you try to convince me that gender is the same as biological sex in which case you are not only ill-educated , you are probably downright insane) I will enlighten you.
DeleteIt's not having a real penis ( A faux penis looking organ created from female skin is no more 'real' than a fake vagina made from male skin and a nice big hole) or a real vagina : Some (rare) bio females don't develop properly and can have a non-fertile, sometimes even non-functioning penis. Same with some unfortunate bio males. Lactation? Some (very few, but some) men maintain that ability in an otherwise near totally male functioning body. And some of the 'intersex' have one or both organs (but ALWAYS one or both is not functional) or even NO outside sex organs at all.
It's not chromosomes. Even if I wasn't a bio major, the Twitterati Trans have done a great job of educating everyone of the various unusual chromosomal combinations from XXY to XYY on down, even though most are rare at the level of one in 100 thousand live births or less. And even some people with XX or XY Chromosome still exhibit some sexual abnormality.
It's not interests or behaviours. Even setting aside the rather circular nature/nurture arguments, the fact is that children of both the normal sexes often share behavioral traits at a greater rate than they do after puberty. But if liking to wear a dress or play dressup with dolls or paint his nails doesn't mean your four year old little boy is definitely going to grow up to be gay, it is even less so means that he is 'trans' and wants to be a girl.
No, the real reason why humans have two and again ONLY TWO sexes is that one sex has the gamete : sperm and the other sex has the gamete : egg and it's sperm + egg that makes a baby human. Not Sperm + X. Not Egg + X. Not X+ X. Nope, only sperm and egg.
In addition there has never been a recorded case of an intersex person having their own child without a partner even if they have both sexual organs. Nor are 'intersex ' (used to be called hermaphrodites) a separate species as they don't meet and mate and form little baby intersex people. Indeed, the intersex are so rare, that I'm not even aware of a case of one functioning like a woman and another functioning like a male and having a baby, but if they did the baby would be a normal human (expressing as male or female) as there are no 'intersex' genes.
Also, because of what I just said, a man cannot currently change into a woman or vice-versa. There is no fertility in trans, and they never get the fertility of the sex they are supposedly changing into. In fact, short of the appearance (and that's not always successful either) they get NOTHING of the sex they supposedly change into. Trans MtF do not magically get women's longer life spans nor the ability to get pregnant, usually even with the hormones that are pumped into them , they can't even lactate. Trans FtM don't get the physical strength of men, nor do they even get the ability to develop most of it, though they can become stronger than regular women...with the help of drugs.
I think people who imagine they are in the wrong body somehow or somehow can magically transform themselves into the opposite sex are mentally ill. And don't even get me started on the stupid and obnoxious "pronoun" stuff.
great common sense points, Clarence.
DeleteThough I don't think Lion is confused or ill-educated. I get where he's coming from. He completely understands the biological definition of sex you outlined so well.
It's a more complex question of what to do with people who have this strong dysmorphia such that they identify as women despite having a male body they can't stand. I call it a disease or disorder. Lion seems to think it's not that, more akin by analogy to being gay. I'll agree to disagree as it's just a definitional argument.
The problem remains as to what to do with them, should they be allowed to transition and mutilate their bodies, at what age if so, and should they be accepted into spaces traditionally reserved for biological women such as sports, locker rooms, bathrooms, ...
What I object to, and where I think some of your ire comes from (and mine), is the disingenuous tactic of the progressive left to redefine the terms men and women when half of us still use it in the traditional biological sense, and then gaslight us by calling us bigots while being unable to provide their "new definitions" in a way that is not self-referential.
I am well educated and have considerably more experience with sexual issues than the rather ignorant Clarence. Like many of the ignorant Right, he tries to oversimplify a very complex issue.
DeleteSince Rush Limbaugh is dead let me try to help.
1. No one argues that genetically, most of us are either male or female. Aside from external sex characteristics, there are many others that separate the sexes. Us Lefties fully understand that.
2. Some people have issues with their sexual identities. Historically, people who don't want to mate with the opposite sex have been persecuted. Despite people like you, homosexuals are accepted as normal members of society.
3. There are other people who have difficulty living as the gender that they were assigned at birth. I don't understand how that must feel, but there are smart, otherwise-well adjusted people who feel this way.
4. Medical science has developed ways for people to assume the other gender. These treatments include hormone therapy and surgery. FYI, you ignorant boob, a well-constructed artificial vagina is indistinguishable from the real thing. It doesn't provide its owner with the same sort of pleasure a woman gets from it, but it looks good and feels fine to the male. Sadly, synthetic penises aren't as realistic.
Trans people believe that they are assuming the sex that they should have been born with. I don't get it, but unlike you, I don't have to. What I know is that the transsexual women and men I have known are happy with their new gender and live law-abiding productive lives.
I don't have to believe that people should be able to change genders. It makes no sense to me. But I absolutely support their right to do it. Why not? They aren't hurting anyone and I can assure you that they didn't go through the years of discomfort and emotional stress just so they can look at pussies in a bathroom.
What pisses me off isn't that morons attack me as ignorant because i don't share their Readers Digest view of life. It's that they work to stop people from living their lives the way the believe they should.
Clarence, do you know how expensive and painful a sex change is? Someone has to be very motivated to take that leap. While I think it is outside my ability to understand, I believe it takes courage and strong conviction to change gender.
Since one of my best friends is a trans female, I think I'm speaking from a position of knowledge. Over more that 25 years since he changed sexes, he still can't make me understand why he did it. You know what? It doesn't matter. She's still one of my best friends in the world.
Julie, please either release this comment intact or delete it. Please don't edit it. Thanks -- Lion
Lion:
DeleteA. I supported gay marriage, you ignorant schmuck, 30 years ago. When it wasn't 'popular' in most places to do so.I doubt you can say the same.
B. Please don't speak of 'no one' (Esp on 'your side' of the political debate) who says that biological sex does not exist. Pz Meyers (of Pharyngula fame) does and he's a freaking biologist. Of course he totally ignores gametes in his arguments and just sticks to good ol chromosomes and external genitalia and such. Of course he knows better. He's a political 'scientist' not a real scientist when it comes to left wing issues. Oh, and that's just one person. Do you have any freaking clue how many biologists , not to mention self declared trans people now make the argument that human sex is a continuum? I've personally seen more than five radical biologists (who I verified it's usually pretty easy as they link to their academic profiles and shit) on Twitter make the same dishonest arguments because its now a 'political issue' for them. Self declared trans? On Twitter and elsewhere ? I honestly have lost count.
C. I see NO DIFFERENCE between your friend and a man who thinks he is Napoleon Bonaparte. They are both deluded. I'm sure the guy who thinks he is Napoleon, could, under the right circumstances also have a successful life for himself, without drugs or treatment. Esp if he only believes HE is Napoleon but doesn't think the rest of the world is 1800 France. But what about the guy who thinks he's a goat? Just where do we freaking draw the line? Should we have the mentally ill making decisions about surgery (esp irreversible surgeries) for themselves? What about under 18's, esp those who haven't even completed puberty?
D. As to your number 4 ANY good PHYSICAL examination of the affected area, let alone a cytological examination, or at an even deeper level a genetic examination would reveal different. I've read the descriptions of how they create these 'organs' and I wanted to throw up.
E. Your personal experience and anecdotes are no more or less valuable than anyone else's. For instance a father who lost a son who committed suicide because the 'trans surgery' didn't help the issue at all or maybe even (in some cases) exacerbated it.
I know my assertion that I was a bio major flew over your pea sized brain, because in your world (you see it again and again in your posts) all right-wingers have to be Christian conservative flat-earthers so it makes you feel good about yourself and pat yourself on the back for how enlightened or educated you are.
*end first part*
Anyway, there wouldn't be a problem with trans if:
Delete1. They left their freaking mitts off the schoolkids and stopped saying that unless you allow puberty blockers you are committing genocide. Yes, I have personally run into that argument as well. Adults is one thing, confused preteens or teens is another.
2. They stopped trying to force people to use their 'preferred pronouns'. There are currently laws and policies that humor what I take to be lies.
3. They didn't want us to pay for their freaking 'treatments'. Yes, as a US taxpayer I've already paid for some people in the US Military to get trans surgeries. I don't have to pay for abortions, I don't see why I should be paying for cosmetic surgeries.
4. If you do NOT at least have a surgery you should not be going in female only spaces, as a regular thing, period. Sure, if no one is around that's one thing.
5. Watching what I regard as men in drag downright destroy female sports via destroying the records (and causing many real and normal women to quit out of despair at ever winning anything) does give me a bit of schadenfreude: no one seemed to care when feminists basically destroyed many smaller men's programs and watching how these "empowered females" can't even defend their own spaces despite the fact they'd have far more societal, legal and even bureaucratic/political support than the men ever got feels good. However, you, as someone who supposedly 'cares about the women' might wanna look into that. Perhaps the Trans should get their own leagues as they destroy women but still can't compete with regular men. Or am I a 'hater' for saying so?
6. They stopped their dating entitlement. No one is owed a date, esp not a man pretending to be a woman, or a woman who had her own tits cut off and has grown a beard with chemical injections.
Anyway, I'll let you get on with solving all that since you are so 'educated' and 'enlightened' and you've had such a good time over the years with your wonderful trans friends, so it should be easy, amiright?
Just as an aside to all this, last year my wife and I to the train to NYC’s Penn Station. She went to use the rest room as we left and I waited outside.
ReplyDeleteA trans person walked up to me and announced they were going to use the women’s room and said I’d better not have a problem with it, or something to that effect. I ignored them as I am trained to ignore weird people at train stations. Then they did the same thing with several other folks in the vicinity. All also ignored them. Just someone trying to get attention it seemed. Harmless, I assume in this case, but still a little weird.
Rosco
Mental health issues, sounds like, but enabled by progressive leftist policies.
DeleteOh shit, Transvit ties are an acctual thing ? Live your life, go a head go homo but leave children 25 and under alone.
ReplyDeleteToo young ;;;;
25 may be pushing it. I'd be happy if they coincided it with legal age for tattoos at a minimum!
DeleteYou're wrong
ReplyDeleteBrilliant argument!
Delete