I thought I'd write a post on my take on the Arab-Israeli conflict. I know, I know, what does a dumb blonde spanking blogger know about it? It's just that with the latest rocket attacks, and people seemingly split on the issue, I thought I'd read up on it and form my own views. Please correct me (politely!) in the comments where you think I'm getting something wrong or am factually off-base.
If you have no interest in politics whatsoever, a good read is the ongoing story exchange between Lion and I, both some maledom and some femdom for your entertainment pleasure - click on Sexy Story Exchange instead!
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The region known as Palestine borders the Eastern Mediterranean Sea and is roughly the size of New Jersey. In pre-history it was one of the places civilization first grew up, emerging from tribes to agricultural communities, into city states. Jews and Arabs were one and the same. Myth has it that both tribes were the sons of the patriarch Abraham who lived in 2150 BCE. His son Isaac the Jews, and Ishmael the Arabs. They both believed that there was one and the same God.
The Palestine region changed political overlords many times. The sequence was,
- Egyptians
- Assyrians
- Babylonians
- Macedonias
- Ptolemaians
- Seleucids
- Hasmonians
- Romans
- Byzantines
- Early Muslims
- Christian Crusaders
- Mamluks
- Ottoman Turks
- Great Britain (administered under "The Mandate")
- Israel
There may have been some sort of Jewish rule during the Egyptian period (the time of Solomon, David, and Saul), although there is little solid archaeological record, mostly Bible stories. The Hasmonian Jews did control Palestine for 100 years or so until the Romans moved in around 63 BCE (Jewish Hanukah commemorates Judas Macabeus re-taking of Jerusalem and the re-dedication of the Temple there in 164 BCE). Arabs controlled Palestine during the Early Muslim period for about 500 years.
From 1516 AD Leading up to the outbreak of WW1 in 1914 the region was controlled by the Muslim Ottoman Turks. Neither the Arabs, Jews, or Christians of the region got along particularly well with them. The Ottoman Turks sided with the German and Austro-Hungarian Empires in WWI and were defeated by the Allied forces of Great Britain, France, Russia, and eventually USA.
While the war was still raging in 1916, confident of victory, the Allies made a secret treaty between the UK and
France, with agreement from Russia and Italy. The agreement would divide the
Ottoman provinces outside the Arabian Peninsula into British and French
control and influence. The British- and French-controlled countries were
divided by the Sykes–Picot line. The region of Palestine was designated
an "International Zone" mainly because of the religious importance of Jerusalem.
Soon after, the League of Nations (a precursor to the United Nations) declared a British Mandate over Palestine and the land to the East of the Jordan River (the "Transjordan").
During the war the British had made contradictory promises to Jews and Arabs to secure their support. Arabs were needed to secure the Suez canal and to keep the oil flowing. Jews were needed because of powerful lobbyist groups in the UK and America, and the UK desperately wanted an isolationist America to join the war effort.
Arabs were promised political control of Palestine, and Jews were promised a "national home" in the very public Balfour Declaration. The following was published in The London Times in 1917.
Both the Arabs and the Jews clamored for the British to make good on their promises to each of them, and jockeyed for position by forcing immigration and fighting amongst themselves. Britain cut off Jewish immigration into the Transjordan, reserving it for the Arabs and therefore excluding it from consideration as part of a potential "national home for the Jewish people", but continued to allow both Jewish and Arab immigration into Palestine.
"Zionism" was a movement for the re-establishment of a Jewish State in
Palestine. It started in the 19th century in Europe. The first wave of
Jewish immigration took place around 1890-1900 where an
estimated 30,000 Jews immigrated to Turkish Palestine mainly from Eastern Europe and Yemen.
These were mainly agriculturists. A second large wave of 40,000 came
from Russia and Poland in 1904-1914. There were a lot of communist
idealists amongst them and they established the communal kibbutz
collectives. Several waves occurred after that leading up to WWII, during it, and immediately after.
In 1900 under the Turks, the population was about 600,000, more than 90% Arab. By 1948 towards the end of the British Mandate the population had grown to almost 2,000,000, 70% Arabs and 30% Jews. There was no displacement of Arabs during that time. Both the Arab and Jewish populations grew through immigration. In fact, the Arab population grew by over 1,000,000 while the Jewish population grew by 500,000.
The Zionists had an organization called the Jewish National Fund (JNF) that collected money internationally and funneled it into Palestine. They used the money to buy and occupy land, often very willingly at exorbitant prices from the rich Arab families. Their policy was to lease the lands they bought to Jewish settlements. JNF policy was that Jewish land, once acquired, could never be resold to Arabs nor opened for non-Jewish employment.
The JNF drained swamp lands, dug wells and built irrigation. By 2007, the JNF owned 13% of the total land in Israel. Since its inception and until now, the JNF planted over 240 million trees in Israel. It has also built 180 dams and reservoirs, developed 250,000 acres of land and established more than 1,000 parks.
The industriousness, education, and capital supplied by the Jews was a giant economic boon to the region that was otherwise languishing under the Arab feudal system. The huge influx of Arab immigration was partly due to the orderly British government, but also largely due to the economic opportunities made possible by comparatively rich Jewish settlement.
However, the Arabs remained politically hostile to any possibility of a Jewish state, and the hostility often broke out openly with Arab riots targeting Jews in 1920, 1928, and especially in 1936 with the Arab Revolt. According to a contemporary description from the 1928 riot,
The crowd reportedly shouted "Independence! Independence!" and "Palestine is our land, the Jews are our dogs!" Arab police joined in applause, and violence started. The local Arab population ransacked the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. The Torath Chaim Yeshiva was raided, and Torah scrolls were torn and thrown on the floor, and the building then set alight. During the next three hours, 160 Jews were injured.
The Arabs became increasingly hostile as Jewish immigration continued. The British also tried to slow the immigration and backpedal on the Balfour Declaration to calm the situation amongst the Arabs. However, the Jews were upset at the perceived breaking of the promises contained in the Balfour Declaration and this promoted a certain militancy amongst them as well which eventually lead to Jewish terrorist attacks against the British in Palestine.
After the Arab Revolt of 1936, Britain established the Peel Royal Commission on the Palestinian situation. It proposed a two-state solution for Palestine where Jews would have political control over some parts of Palestine, and Arabs over other parts, as follows.
It made provisions for the gradual and voluntary movement of willing Arabs out of Jewish regions and Jewish people out of Arab regions.
The Jews were not at all happy with the solution, given their tiny allotment of land and limits on immigration, but ultimately accepted it as better than nothing. The Arabs however, were dead set against any Jewish state at all in Palestine, and outright rejected the plan. The Axis Powers of WWII, Germany and Italy, encouraged this attitude and the threat of Arabs joining the Axis was ever present. Moreover German policy was now firmly against a Jewish state believing it would create "an additional position of power under international law for international Jewry."
As a result of the pressure from the Arabs, Britain backpedaled on the partition plan in a 1939 white paper and severely curtailed Jewish immigration at a time when there were more and more refugees and Jews were being put into concentration camps. The white paper was heavily debated in England and was eventually itself narrowly repudiated, leaving the situation completely unsettled.
During WWII, which broke out Sep 1, 1939, the Arabs double-dealt on both sides but allied themselves more with the Axis powers. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, an Arab and the nominal head of Islam, living in exile in Turkey made a deal with Hitler and Mussolini that in exchange for Moslem support the Axis would recognize the sovereignty and independence of the Arab countries and promised Axis help in "the elimination of the Jewish National home in Palestine." Speaking in the name of God and the Prophet, the Mufti publicly urged Muslims everywhere to rise up against the Allies, though the request was not met with enthusiasm and no such mass uprising ever occurred. Meanwhile the Jews in Palestine remained loyal to the Allies (the other choice being the Nazis).
In the spring of 1940 the Chamberlain government in Britain was replaced by Churchill. Churchill welcomed the Palestinian Jews as allies and renewed promises for a Jewish homeland after the war.
During and after WWII there were millions of Jews murdered, had all their possessions stolen, and were displaced from Europe due to the fascists. Few countries wanted to take in that many Jewish refugees, especially as anti-Jewish sentiment was strong everywhere. The newly formed UN with strong support from the US and the UK put forth a resolution for the establishment of a Jewish State and the partitioning of Palestine.
Jerusalem would be kept under international control. The vote was 33 for, 13 against, and 10 abstentions. The Muslim countries voted against it, utterly rejected the plan, and promised to go to war if it were implemented.
Azzam Pasha, the General Secretary of the Arab League, told an Egyptian newspaper "Personally I hope the Jews do not force us into this war because it will be a war of elimination and it will be a dangerous massacre which history will record similarly to the Mongol massacre or the wars of the Crusades." Azzam told Alec Kirkbride "We will sweep them [the Jews] into the sea." Syrian president Shukri al-Quwatli told his people: "We shall eradicate Zionism."
Personally, I find this to be rather ugly of the Muslims in general and the Arab Muslims in particular. The Muslims controlled vast swathes of territory in the region.
All the green is now Muslim controlled territory, and the tiny red bit, literally the size of New Jersey, is what was given over to the Jews to administer as a national homeland, with provisions and assurances to deal fairly with an Arab minority population, and without even control of the heavily disputed Jerusalem which was to be left as an International UN Mandate.
The vote was ratified and the Arabs went on a war of extermination against the Jews in a combined offensive from the armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and the Arabs in Palestine in May of 1948.
The Jews had not been heavily armed before this point, and only had the arms they were able to smuggle in against the British. Moreover, the British in Palestine seemed more sympathetic to the Arabs and vacated their strongholds directly to the Arabs when they left. The Israelis were experienced warriors and tenacious, however, and the Arabs uncoordinated in their attacks allowing the Jews to deal with them one by one rather than all at once. This lead to a complete Israeli victory in 9 months which left them with more territory than they had originally been allotted.
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| Original UN allotment on left The situation after the 1948 Arab-Isaeli war on the right |
Leading up to and during the war there was a mass exodus of Arabs from the Israeli controlled areas of Palestine. Over 80% of an estimated 1,000,000 left the Israeli-controlled areas, and another 200,000 or so remained. Many left of their own steam fearing what was to come, and given that their leaders had all deserted them; and the Israeli's committed atrocities as well. However, many of the Arab villages and communities in Israel actively warred against the Israelis and could not be reasonably left alone and intact given the very limited Israeli resources at the time.
Nowadays the Arab exodus is referred to as the "al-Nakba" ("the catastrophe") and is portrayed as some sort of "ethnic cleansing" of the Arabs by the Israelis. Most of the references I found to the al-Nakba fail to mention the fact that the Arabs actively went to war and tried their hardest to eliminate the Jews completely from Palestine, which I find to be rather unbalanced. For example, from Aljazeera:
On that day, the State of Israel came into being. The creation of Israel was a violent process that entailed the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homeland to establish a Jewish-majority state, as per the aspirations of the Zionist movement.
Hmmmmm... left something important out of that, no?
Many of the refugees went to the Gaza strip controlled by Egypt, and the West Bank controlled by Jordan. Rather than allowing them to freely immigrate into Egypt and Jordan, those countries kept many of the Palestinians penned up there in atrocious conditions in order to put pressure on Israel and to have a base of operations to launch future conflicts. This situation exists until today.
In the 1956 Suez Crisis, The new President of Egypt, Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal, taking it from France and Britain, and also kept the Straits of Tiran closed to vessels in and out of Israel. This forced Israel's hand and they went on the attack in the Sinai dessert, taking the straits and the canal from Egypt (along with French and British forces) and re-opening it. They eventually withdrew to their original border completely with UN assurances that the canal and straits would stay open.
in 1967, Israel reiterated its post-1956 position that the closure of the Straits
of Tiran to Israeli shipping would be a cause for war. Egyptian President Nasser, however,
announced that the Straits would be closed to Israeli vessels,
and then mobilized Egyptian armed forces along the border with Israel,
ejecting The United Nations forces, in conjunction with other Arab forces who did likewise, staging for an imminent attack.
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| Arab troop deployments before hostilities. |
The above map shows how the Arab forces were aggressively deployed, after getting rid of the UN and closing the Suez canal and the Straits to Israel.
Israel preemptively struck Egypt, almost completely eliminating their air force. Then, having complete air dominance retook Gaza, the Sinai, the Suez canal, and the Straits of Tiran. Jordan then began an uncoordinated attack of its own from the West bank. Israel fought back and took that. Syria then attacked from the Golan heights in the North, and Israel fought back and took that as well. It only took six days in total.
 |
| Israeli counter-attacks |
There is said to be a controversy over who "started" the Six-Day war. To me it was pretty clear the Arabs did by their aggressive military provocation and the blockade, but were caught by surprise when the Israelis threw the first punch.
Gradually over negotiated settlements in 1972, 1980, and 1982, Israel ceded back most of the land they took, but kept administrative control over Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.
Israeli began putting settlements into Gaza and the West Bank which angered the Palestinians who fought back in the intifada, a series of suicide bombings and other terrorist activities lead by the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) under Yasser Arafat.
In 1994, with the Oslo Accords, much of the Gaza Strip (except for the settlement blocs and military areas) came under control of a new Palestinian Authority, led by Arafat. In September 1995, Israel and the PLO signed a second peace agreement extending the Palestinian Authority to most West Bank towns as well.
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| Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin (left) US President Clinton (center) PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat (right) |
Troubles continued however, and in 2005 Israel unilaterally and forcibly pulled Israeli settlers out of the Gaza Strip and declared an end to its military occupation of Gaza.
In 2006, Hamas won the elections in Gaza by a plurality of seats and then went to war against the secular Palestinian Authority party (Fatah). Hamas is an Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorist Organization closely aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood. They are anti-semitic, deny the Holocaust, and believe the Jews are a conspiracy to take over the world. On August 10, 2012, Ahmad Bahr, Deputy Speaker of the Hamas Parliament, stated in a sermon that aired on Al-Aqsa TV:
If the enemy sets foot on a single square inch of Islamic land, Jihad becomes an individual duty, incumbent on every Muslim, male or female. A woman may set out [on Jihad] without her husband's permission, and a servant without his master's permission. Why? In order to annihilate those Jews. ... O Allah, destroy the Jews and their supporters. O Allah, destroy the Americans and their supporters. O Allah, count them one by one, and kill them all, without leaving a single one.
That about sums up Hamas!
Periodically, in 2008, 2014, and 2018, Hamas launched attacks into Israel. This most recent attack of Hamas targeting Israel with over 4000 rockets is just the latest in a long series. Each time Hamas does it, they instigate it, and Gaza winds up the worse for it.
According to the Oslo Accords, Israel and the Palestine Authority share responsibility over the West Bank, dividing it into 3 zones.
| Area | Security | Civil Admin | %land | %Palestinians |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| A (Green) |
Palestinian | Palestinian | 18% | 55% |
| B (Dark Red) |
Israeli | Palestinian | 21% | 41% |
| C (Pink) | Israeli | Israeli | 61% | 4% |
Area C is much disputed. It was supposed to be gradually transitioned to the Palestinian Authority but that has not happened yet. The status of Israeli settlements in the the West Bank is in dispute internationally.
The Golan Heights are claimed by Israel, and they're not moving as it is a militarily strategic position overlooking Israel. Trump recognized the Golan Heights as being part of Israel, and moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem which the Israelis have designated their capital city.
The Trump administration advanced the Abraham Accords which normalized relations between several Arab countries and Israel, including the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morroco, with other countries expected if the Biden administration can keep the peace process on track.
All in all, my take on it is that while both sides of the conflict are partially at fault (Israel with historical atrocities, over-aggressive policing, and continued settlements), the Hamas terrorist "government" in Gaza is a very bad actor, and the Arabs in general have been bad actors throughout the history of Israel, unwilling to compromise in the least or even give an inch while expressing strong anti-Jewish sentiments and the desire to completely eradicate Israel as their one and only goal.
The suffering of the Palestinian people, especially those in the Gaza Strip, should be placed squarely on the backs of their own Hamas terrorist leaders that even the Palestinian Authority disavow and went to war with.
A dumb blonde spanking blogger's two cents on it anyways. Your comments are welcome, as always.
From what I can see, you are hardly a "dumb blonde", as you self-deprecatingly say. On the contrary, I think you give a more reasonably well thought out and balanced assessment than many pundits. I am impressed that you noted the '56 war, one that few people are even aware of. I confess I do have a few minor quibbles. For example, along with Jerusalem, the UNSCOP partition plan also recommended that Bethlehem be internationalized. I also think you somewhat understate the archeological evidence for Israelite/Judean sovereignty, although of course, there is considerable academic disagreement regarding how extensive and long lasting it was. (On the other hand, the evidence for Hebrew/Jewish habitation in the area is incontrovertible.)
ReplyDeleteThank you for that. And thank you for the corrections.
DeleteVery sadly the answer always seems to be kill. Just keep killing till...whenever.
ReplyDeleteAnd what would you do if people showed up at your farm that has been in your family for generations, gave you 20 minutes to take what you could carry, before bulldozing it, leaving you and your family helpless?
DeleteWhat if the UK suddenly declared your part of Canada to now be belong to the US, and your children had to pass through armed guards who teased and tormented them for fun, on their way to school everyday?
You are very one sided here and frankly I find it disgusting. Palestinians are defending themselves, yet you make the Israelis out to be innocent victims.
Your post has angered me greatly. I usually come to your blog for enjoyment and to feel good, for smiles. Now.... honestly I feel like unfollowing you.
Excellent summary. Thanks for posting it,
ReplyDeleteThank you. I really wanted to educate myself over this so I knew who I would back.
DeleteHamas is a Iran surrogate terrorist organization that made the missiles Hamas uses. Israel in its current borders is less than half of what it used be. Israel should just end it all and take over all of area with their strength as has been done through out history. Especially since the terrorists Hamas Muslims treat non Muslims like second class citizens and even refuse them to show any sign of their faith or even signaling that they might be praying etc inside Temple mount.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/338332990760953490/
Emily
Well, Arabs did control the area for 500 years, and Muslims for longer than that. I don't think you get anywhere rehashing the ancient history. Israel is in a tricky situation and need the support of the more moderate Muslim world before taking any drastic action against Hamas, but hopefully that's starting to happen. Or at least it was under Trump. Biden and Kerrie cosying back up to Iran as Obama did, and sending "aid" to Palestine which they use to buy weapons, does not help.
DeleteWith all due respect, because I do enjoy reading your blog in general, I hope you stick to writing about spanking and kink.
ReplyDeleteI gave a warning at the top, you don't need to read it. I write whatever I feel strongly about, which is mainly kink.
DeleteHi Julie, thanks for your blog, its one of my favorites. About this matter, just to say that after WWII nobody wanted the jews left in Europe in their countries. So, UK force to create Israel, where there was no land for them! Jews have the right to leave in peace anywhere but not to kill the people living in Palestina because they are "special". They practice terrorism along the years, Golda Meir a terrorisrt, who justified anything in the name of God.
ReplyDeletePlease July, think a while about why Europe was and is antisemitic. Jews yes, Sionists, NO.
That's not accurate. Jews and Arabs lived together in Palestine. Had the Arabs accepted the political partition and not gone on a genocidal war against the Jews, there likely would have been no nastiness to the Arabs. No? Imagine if the Arab world said, "fair enough, it's Britain's territory, the UN came up with a fair division, well accept it and live peacefully with our Jewish neighbours."
DeleteYour answer here Julie would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
Delete"Had the Arabs accepted the political partition and not gone on a genocidal war against the Jews, there likely would have been no nastiness to the Arabs."
Really Julie???? A group of people come in by "authority" granted to them by some other nation, and start taking over your land and you're just supposed to bend over and take it? And when you defend yourself, as the Palestinians do, you are accused of being the ones to commit genocide?!
Your entire article screams of ignorance, and someone who completely fell for pro-Islreali propaganda. If that's the kind of research you do (one-sided, looking only at what mainstream media puts out there) you have lost my respect.
Any land taken over was a direct result of the war. No land takeover occurred before the war. It was all legal purchases from either the Arabs if they owned it, or granted by the British if it was up for grabs. The UN resolution only concerned who was allowed to form a government in the various parts of Palestine. The UN resolution did not kick anybody out of their homes, the war started by the Arabs did that. Can't you see that? So my statement stands.
DeleteSo you saying that because the Arab defended their land and lost that gave Israel the right to take more land, right?
DeleteMichael
They did not "defend their land". Land of Arab property owners was not threatened. Multiple Arab countries initiated a genocidal war. The UN resolution concerned who would govern. It was not a land grab. Governance went from Turks, to British, to Israelis & Arab Palestinians equally. Until the Arabs waged war...
DeleteThis sounds like one huge apologetic take on Israel’s terrorist actions towards Palestine to be honest. I liked your take on the covid situation, but this makes you out to be a dumb blonde as you say. A lot of comes across like straight up Israel propaganda. And a lot of it sounds like you’re making the Palestinians out to be Anti Semitic when that doesn’t make sense since they are Semitic to that land.
ReplyDeleteI will say that this was a waste of a post to say a whole lot of propaganda talking points. Thanks for confirming how brainless you truly are.
I did my own research. Which parts I wrote about are historically inaccurate?
DeleteYou did a good job of presenting largely neutral facts in a charged situation. The situation in Palestine has been centuries in the making, and there's no easy or quick solution.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing I would fault the U.S. on is that no one in the Administration has leaned on Israel to stop expelling people from their homes. This is really the proximate cause of the recent battle. It doesn't matter who originally owned the land when someone who has lived in a house all their life is thrown out and their land taken. This doesn't excuse Hamas launching rockets, but that might have been avoided if the U.S. had reacted more forcefully to Israeli policies on taking homes in places like east Jerusalem. The U.S. provides some $3.8 billion a year to Israel. That money should not then be used to kick people out of their houses.
The one thing that might help the overall situation would be to focus on providing a viable economy for Gaza. The U.S. and other countries could help by insisting on security for businesses to work in that area, providing more direct foreign aid, and by providing humanitarian assistance there. If people had something other than war to look forward to, maybe they would choose peace more often.
This is a really thorough recap. I appreciate you being comprehensive, but also including your own take and making it clear as such. It’s really rather refreshing.
ReplyDeleteThe intent of those in charge plays such a role here. Hamas helps no one. How can even a two state solution be achieved with Hamas doing what Hamas does?
Hamas has in the past grudgingly agreed that a two-state solution may be the only path, but they seem rather insincere about it. I think until Islamist Fundamentalists are out of power in Gaza, no solution will be possible other than a war to forcibly remove them, which may be possible if the more moderate Arab states allow it.
DeleteSorry forgot to sign my comment earlier. It’s tay tay.
DeleteI agree very much with your take. If one party doesn’t have the right to exist per the fundamentalist group more or less calling the shots for the other party, how can actual negotiations take place?
I like your idea of a great historical narrative where all the forces present come to take their place. You also give all the appropriate importance to the maps which are missing so often in this kind of demonstration. As for your positions, they are reasonable and remarkably free from hatred and bias. You would make an excellent Geography-History teacher. :)
ReplyDeleteThank you sterny, there will be a quiz next week and any students getting less than 60% will be given a bare bottom spanking in front of the entire class. So study up!
DeleteAn excellent article on an important topic. Hamas seems to fit the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (rocket and other attacks on Israel) and expecting a different result (way more Palestinians than Israelis end up getting killed). Ironically, the Palestinian cause is just. By the connivance of the British and the Zionists, their land was stolen from them. Imagine how you would feel, Julie, if nut-cases took over in the U.S., and then forced much land in Canada, including where you live, to be seized from you and given to the Indians because that was their original "honeland." And no compensation for you. The injustice is apparent. The best solution would be a one-state solution, where Israel ceases its apartheid against Palestinians and it becomes a true one person/one vote state.
ReplyDeleteWas their land stolen? Certainly not before the Arabs declared a genocidal war against the Israelis and lost.
DeleteThe UN, US, UK desired a two state solution where nobody would be forced to leave their homes (but may wish to move of their own accord). The Arabs rejected that and went to war.
Remember, before Jewish settlement, the entire population was only 600,000. It ballooned to over 2,000,000 as the Jews started immigrating in and bringing their education and money with them. In fact more Arabs immigrated in than Jews over that time leading up to the UN resolution.
There is so much bad blood and anger now that you're right, a one state solution wouldn't work. What a sad situation overall. Maybe we can get the Northern Ireland Protestants and Catholics give the Palestinians and Israelis tips on how to reconcile and end the bloodshed.
DeleteAs a spanked sex blogger, I applaud your excellent historical account. Off topic, it's sad that a political post gets more comments than our sexy stories.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, my key takeaways on the Israel/Arab situation is that:
1.The Arab Palestinians have been unwelcome in any of the bordering Arab countries. They are victims of their own people casting them out.
2. At various times, Israel has been overaggressive in their efforts to preserve their state. I can't really quibble with that. Other than Jordan, they have never had any friendly contact with neighbors.
3. The current Hamas "government" is nothing more than a terrorist organization. I am unclear who is paying for the expensive rockets they are shooting into densely populated areas of Isreal.
4. The US created and funds the Iron Dome missile defense system that destroys over 90% of the Hamas rockets before they can kill anyone. Without it, a lot of Israel would be in rubble.
I've always been unhappy with what I perceive as Israel's land grabs. I get it. Most of the acquisition provides a buffer against Arab attack. The aggressive settlement of the West Bank strikes me as provocative.
Much as I hate to say it, the Muslim world seems intent on wiping out the Jews inside their own countries as well as, of course, Israel. They also don't treat their Christian population any better.
I'm more than a little surprised we are in close agreement here. While I think that Trump's efforts at Middle East peace were no more than self-serving efforts to protect US oil interests (Biden's are too) and, more importantly, to try to win Jewish votes, it is a good start.
Your historical account is very good. One key thing about modern Israel (Palestine under the British)is that most of its population came as Jewish refugees from Hitler's holocaust. Most of Europe and the US were reluctant to take people fleeing from Hitler. A big reason that Israel is so aggressive is that the motto "Never Again" is deeply felt. Israel is still open to any Jew who wishes to come and become a citizen.
By the way, in addition to turning the desert into forests and farms, Israel is a leading high-tech producer of both software and hardware. It also is a world-leading creator of medicines. At this point, it is a strategic partner of ours.
Weird that we are agreeing politically. See? It's more than just sex!
Weird! Political agreement. Other than the former God Emperor Trump's motivations, of course ;-)
DeleteReadership is the same, it's just more folks have something to add on this question than on our sexy stories, which is cool by me. 😎
I really hoped you were joking when I saw the title of your post this morning! It's nice to see the comments aren't as radicalized as they usually are when you talk politics - I guess your readers feel less obliged to take sides when your focus is further from home.
ReplyDeleteFrankly, I see where both sides are coming from, but really the whole conflict is a warning on letting go of the past and focusing on the future, or even the present.
The Israelis undoubtedly have superior weapons and have done some terrible things, but you can't expect them to sit back and do nothing whilst their innocent citizens are being murdered by missiles. And then you can understand why the Palestinians will take a shot back if and when they can. Violence begets more violence. The fact that you need a series of maps and a lesson in history to understand why normal people are being killed in their homes is ridiculous and terrifying.
It's worrying when you see people think in such binary terms. You see it in the US with extreme Republicans and extreme anti-Trump folk. You saw it in the UK with Brexit, and probably would have seen more idiocy and tribalism of not for COVID. I don't know what the solution is, but it's not more death and more hatred.
I don't buy the "both sides use violence, both sides are bad". Only one side has stated as their most fervent desire the complete genocide of the other. I think a little side-taking is justified.
DeleteWell, if I'm being forced to pick a side, I'm going with the Palestinians. Frankly I don't care what promises which government made to whom decades and centuries ago, and not just because as a British citizen the Empire is responsible for a lot of grief. I live in the present. The Israelis have far superior weapons, resources and political allies so the onus is on them to either suggest and enforce a peaceful solution or to remove the Hamas leaders that are threatening their right to get on with their lives without the threat of missile attack.
DeleteI really don't view either side as bad. I'm certainly not as passionate or well informed as you. I just have to imagine that given the choice John Q Palestinian and Average Joe Israeli would much rather forget the whole thing if it meant a better tomorrow for themselves and their families.
I think they would take out Hamas if they could, but currently that means war. We need a universal international condemnation of a group that sends 4000+ missiles to harm civilians, not apologists for them.
DeleteI agree, and would like to add:
ReplyDeleteGaza has been the world's political football. Plenty of blame to share in the Arab world, Israel, the US and elsewhere. There are 2 million people suffering from the hands of their own government (yes, I know Hamas was voted in) as well as everybody else's.
Gaza is very poor. And, were Gaza a country it would rank third in population density after (the much smaller) Macao and Monaco. The people really need economic opportunity.
- Rosco
They need to be allowed to immigrate to other Arab/Muslim countries, and they need to get rid of a radical anti-Jewish, Islamist "government" in the midst of Israel before economic opportunity has a chance,
DeleteCongratulations to a Shiksa Goddess on your efforts toward a deeper understanding of the region.I will just point out that if the Israelis really wanted to defeat Hamas ,they would release Marwan Barghouti from jail as he has wide popular support.Even the Palestinian Druze and Samaritans are inclined to prefer him. Bob Fisk's 'The Great War for Civilisation' adds context,depending how deep you want to go.The US King Crane Commission of 1919 recommended a Greater Syria solution with freedom of movement and protection of (Maronite) Christians and Jews.Personally ,I see this as still the best option after the war against Syria by Israel and the West using their proxies.
ReplyDeleteKing Crane was against a Jewish state in 1919 but The Holocaust changed peoples minds on that. I am not oblivious to all the intrigue that went on and crass politics and national advancement, but after The Holocaust, with a lot of the world still very anti-Jewish, a Jewish state was needed in my opinion. Yours may differ.
DeleteWell its not a 'conflict'. Its just a genocide by Israelis.
ReplyDeleteCare to back your opinion up with any facts, or is that all we can expect?
DeleteEspecially considering the fact that Israel has broken 66 UN resolutions and refuses to follow international law. They have used banned weapons, committed dozens of false flag operations and encourage terrorism against Palestinians, ask Meir Ettinger. And when anyone points any of those things out they are called anti-Semitic and reminded of the Holocaust. Palestinians have lived through a Holocaust for the past six decades.
DeleteWord to the wise. Don't compare things to The Holocaust.
Deletelove you for that
DeleteWow you are supporting the muderers (Israel) of innocent children.international media ia not showing true things because Israel have 'deep pockets'. International media only shows thimgs which israel want them to show.Thankyou.
ReplyDeleteChildren are dead on both sides. It's what happens when Hamas targets Israeli civilians with rockets, and hides behind women/children/hospitals/schools to launch these attacks.
DeleteJared Kushner level of naivete
ReplyDeleteCare to back your opinion up with any facts, or is that all we can expect?
DeleteIsrael's friends are her worst enemies.
DeleteHamas is not an evil group leading the people of Gaza astray. The majority of the people in Gaza have been born in hopelessness many to parents who were also born into hopelessness.
Israel's leaders would do well to remember that the Palestinian people are human beings who want and deserve a future that respects their own sense of self and nationhood.
My very limited experience with Israelis tells me that there are some Israelis who recognize that Israel was born through an injustice and that rectifying that injustice will be necessary for Israel to find peace.
When Israel's friends feed their naïve belief that the Palestinians will somehow accept their fate and go away, they just make resolution more difficult.
It will not be easy or quick. The Irish and the English did it, blacks and whites in South Africa did it. But it has to acknowledge the original sin.
It was not born through injustice. It was literally born through an international legal process. Then the Arabs attacked.
DeleteNonsense. The British did not have the right to give the homes of the Palestinians to The Zionists.
DeleteI am old enough to know people who went to live in kibbutza and who left because tehy did not want the stain on their souls. I also know someone whose son, probably your age, who lives in Israel now. My understanding, vlearly second hand, is that he is painfully aware of the history. He is in the army, and will defend his country. But he is also aware of the need for justice.
The British did not give Palestinian homes to Zionists. The UN ruled that one part of the British Mandate in Palestine would be governed by Jews, the other by Arabs. Homes of each were in the others parts. Those homes were not given away. If political leadership changes, homes are not given away. In fact they were careful to mandate the preservation of minority rights.
DeleteIt was not until the Arabs attacked and the Palestinian Arabs in Israel fled that the troubles started. Original sin was the Arabs in this conflict.
When I was in college there was a young woman, very quiet, very studious premed student who often sat with us ( a very small group of anti-Vietnam people in a small Catholic college) . We had few allies so if someone wanted to be with us, we were happy. One day, in trying to differentiate between the right of self-defense and Vietnam, I said something to the effect that the Israelis had the right to defend themselves.
DeleteShe became very animated. She was Palestinian. She talked about how the Israelis came to their village, packed them up into busses and sent them to camps. Her father was a doctor and was able to emigrate to the US.
They took their homes. There are many stories of people, and now their descendents, who keep the key to their home that was taken from them.
It is easier to speak of these things in Israel than it is in the US.
Denying these truths is no better than denying what happened in Germany. I am npt equating the actions but I am equating the denial.
Agreed they did this in villages that went to war on the Israelis. The US did the same to the Japanese after Pearl Harbor with much less justification, as the Japanese Americans were not actively shooting at them. Tragedies of war. I blame those who started the war.
DeleteThey did this where they wanted the land.
DeleteBack to my first point. Israel's friends are their worst enemies. Many Israelis understand the original sin. After the horror of Nazi Germany the urge for a homeland blinded them to the reality that there were people there. The West, feeling guilty, acquiesced. (Yes there was a UN resolution that was the fig leaf.)
Now, they are caught in a moral dilemma. The Palestinians are not going away. That is a pipe dream.
There are many, many highly moral people in Israel painfully aware of the dilemma.
I am hopeful, personally, that pushing Netanyahu out may open up thinking. There is no easy way out but honestly dealing with the reality is the first sye.
There was plenty of room for both people's. The Arabs were, and continue to be, unable to compromise.
DeleteNonsense. The amount of good land was and is limited. Obviously, it was occupied.
DeleteI don't want to keep going around the mulberry bush.
There has been so much revisionist history and that revisionism is the single biggest obstacle to solving the problem.
Read my blog post. In 1900 there were 600,000, 99% Arabs.
DeleteBy 1948 there were 2,100,000, 1M extra Palestinians, 0.5M extra Jews. That was enabled by Jewish capitol, education, and social systems.
There are now 7M Jews and 2M Muslim Arabs in Israel.
It can be a win-win as long as there is no war-war.
I'm truly impressed Julie by your knowledge/research and for not falling for the empty emotions like 'apartheid' 'child killers' 'occupiers' Etc. Without substance and backed up by reality.
DeleteFunny thing is the arabs kill thousands between themselves to keep control over one another and the world is quiet.
I don't have much to add as I've done a lot of my own research and have come to the same conclusion as you and have you realized all of the people disagreeing with you have no backup to their side?
I think it's just that Islam is 600 years behind Christianity. The Christians were merrily killing one another 600 years ago also.
DeleteWhat I find most telling from my critics here is there seeming complete refusal to acknowledge the 1948 genocidal war waged by Arabs as root cause for Israeli actions.
I'll refrain from criticizing your breakdown of the history surrounding the region, as I quite simply don't know enough about the details to do so with any seriousness. I think you may be oversimplifying your presentation of Hamas, though I agree that your description covers part of the...let's call it organization, which I believe has multiple facets.
ReplyDeleteWith that out of the way, I'll just say this:
I see absolutely no end in sight for this idiotic conflict, as it involves the two things most resistant to facts and rational behavior; Religion and Politics.
And on top of that you can now add modern day international power politics and influence agendas.
The only way this stupidity ends, is if you either eradicate every single individual on the entire planet with a political or religious opinion on the conflict and who should have control of the area. Or if you turn the entire area into a nuclear wasteland that is going to be uninhabitable by anything living for the next several thousand years, by which time we'll hopefully have become wiser (assuming we still exist as a species). But I don't see that happening.
Neither side is entirely in the right or wrong with regards to this conflict, and various actions on both sides can be heavily criticized.
If you could eradicate the religious aspect of the conflict, and find some entirely new a-religious, a-political players whose only agenda would be to find a solution that would allow people to live in peace with each other, then MAYBE you'd be able to find a workable solution. But the Sun is liable to burn out before that happens.
If you don't know anything about the details yourself, and apparently do not take my presentation as accurate (your assumption you would "criticize" it if only you knew more), then why are you taking an opinion on it at all?
DeleteI don;t think religion is at all behind any of that. Here's a good article from Vox (of all places) that busts some misconceptions you seem to have https://www.vox.com/2015/5/14/18093732/israel-palestine-misconceptions
Julie, you're a proponent of doing your own research, rather than blindly believing what someone on the internet says. You've obviously dug into the topic here, and what you write sounds plausible. However, as I'm lacking sufficiently detailed knowledge (I didn't write that I don't know anything) of the topic matter, I can't really determine whether or not you have gotten some of the facts wrong. Hence I can't seriously make claims as to whether or not you are objectively correct in what you write or not. My use of the word "criticize", should be seen in the academic sense of reviewing an academic work.
DeleteAs for religion not playing a part in this, I agree with the article you linked to. Religion isn't a major driving force for most of the various parties with in interest in the conflict. But it is a factor in some respects, and you have religious groups to whom this aspect is a MAJOR issue.
As for my conclusion on the conflict here having any end in sight, I'll stand by what I wrote. It ain't happening within any foreseeable future, because there is simply no way to reconcile the interests and concerns of all of the parties involved in the conflict.
I think your first paragraph can be said of almost anything, so deciding to explicitly state it seems to be meaningful in some way?
DeleteI am less pessimistic if Hamas can be taken out of the picture.
Netanyahu is a war criminal and needs hanged for his crimes. Israel always wants to play the oppressed victim card for shit that happened 70+ years ago. Was the Holocaust terrible? Absolutely. So was the Trail of Tears, Slavery, Tulsa Massacre, Armenian genocide, the Rape of Nanking, shall I continue? Israel does shit left and right to antagonize people and then plays the anti-semitism card when someone calls them out on it. Just yesterday, Israel said they’re going to ask the US for 1 billion in emergency aid to cover the cost of their attacks on Hamas last month. Fuck Israel.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I didn’t read any of your post, because you’re going to say something really stupid that aligns with far right lunacy and I don’t have much respect left I can lose for you.
The man is not ignorant, all what he wrote is true historical incidents.
DeleteHe is ignorant because he was criticizing a post he did not read. Don't be that guy.
DeleteI continue to think of you as the as the sexiest women on the web. But with this post, I had to refer you to my Baptist, vanilla sex only, wife. We have a daughter living in Israel, and she has been very concerned about her safety. This the clearest and most concise description of the history of the current situation. I hope she will consider reading your other entries.
ReplyDeleteThank you Mr. Lurker.
DeleteAnd surely together we can convert a good Baptist wife to some firm-handed Christian Domestic Discipline!
I know the entire history of the Israel Palestine issue, so I admit I didn't read the entire post except for the last para for your position.
ReplyDeletePalestinians want to return to present day Israel from where they were ethnically cleansed (according to them), fled as refugees due to war (according to Israel). That sounds okay to me if either would agree to a secular democratic govt. But no Israel wants to be a Jewish majority state (zionism - they claim their right to the land supersedes any history or claim the Palestinians may have, which is ludicrous) and would love for the palestinians to just fuck off to the rest of the muslim countries. And Palestine wants the whole region to be muslim and for Israelis to fuck off to Europe, which is ridiculous as well, because they argue that Jews have no place there and that it is an occupation.
The other issues have equally valid points on both sides:
Hamas hides behind civilians and attacks Israel with rockets. Israel brutalizes Palestinians with extra judicial detentions, torture among other things.
Israel also crams these people into a tiny area, while controlling land air and sea, all the while grabbing land and evicting people, so its inevitable that any resistance to Israel will be in an area where the people are. Also Israel doesn’t supply proper resources such as water for irrigation among other issues.
Hamas preaches very anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish rhetoric to its citizens and infact has a charter that wants to eradicate Israel. Many Israelis clap and cheer when Gaza is bombed, and the Israeli govt even funds organizations that advocates against jews marrying arabs. 70% of Israelis also dont want to live next to an Israeli Arab (not Palestinian, but Israeli) because most Israelis dont even consider Arabs as humans - remember the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange and the subsequent rhetoric of how 1 Jewish life was worth a 1000 Arabs or some such. So there is a lot of racism/xenophobia there as well on both sides.
My take on it is, that both Israel and Palestine are racist, xenophobic assholes who deserve each other. There is no way to fix this issue and this is just going to sadly continue. The idea of a Jewish or a Muslim state is in and of itself a loathsome idea - states should be secular and religion a private affair. Not a defining identity of a nation.
I agree with most of that, but think that Jews after WW2 needed a country representing them, unfortunately.
DeleteI find it awkward that a religious group forms a country.
DeleteMore like a self-identifying racial group. I agree it's awkward, but so was most of the world persecuting them.
DeleteI disagree, they are not a racial group, they are from different races (African, Caucasian, etc..)
DeleteOk. Combo of religious and racial.
DeleteNo, they are a religious group, the only common factor among them is being jews.
DeleteYawn, Don't give a shit about the middle east, Energy policy is domestic. Let the Semites arab and jew have a pissing match over an insignificant piece of turf. British Empire at fault for letting them think either have a voice.
ReplyDeleteWhy do they deserve a homeland and gypsies or kurdos no?
DeleteMaybe because they dont have money to pay an army to kill the people living there...?
There are jews in Canada, correct? Then call for more Jews to come live in Canada and give them a Toronto to establish their own Country there
DeleteArabs were kicked out, no one was allowed in. A key point of disagreement is allowing immigrated palastinians to go back home for the Arab countries they moved to after the Israelis kicked them out or to be more specific pushed them to run for their lives after the massacres against them like Dir Yassin led by Israeli who also killed the UN peace Embassador the Swedish count Bernadotte. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-s-forgotten-hero-the-assassination-of-count-bernadotte-and-the-death-of-peace-934094.html
DeleteYes, Israelis committed atrocities, as did Arabs. Were it not for the Arab's initial genocidal war of aggression, rather than abiding by the judgment of the international community, none of it would have happened.
DeleteIf the USA decides to take Niagara falls and neighboring region and the international community decides that it is their right don't attempt to get it back and if you attack and they attack in response to your attack, we will use your above logic ignoring your right to defend your land.
DeleteThe analogy would be if Canada started a war with the USA, lost, and then the USA, with permission from the UN, setup a French and an English country. Then, no, I would not go on a genocidal war to eliminate every last French speaker.
DeleteI don't get Julie, so you think it is ok for USA being a super power to take a small part of Canada and give it to jews to establish their own country (there are jews in Canada living with other Canadians, so Jews from all over the world come to Canada, buy land in the region promised by USA, then when Canada defends it sovereignty, tne Jews get advanced USA weapons and beat Canada gaining more land).
ReplyDeleteThe difference is there was no Arab state in the region. It was Turks, then British, then partition.
DeleteWho said so? There was an Arab state that had its own government and currency but was under British occupation like most countries in the region at that time.
DeleteNope. You have your history muddled. It was ruled by Turks until they lost it to the Allied forces in WW1. The term Palestinians to refer to Arabs in that region was Russia propaganda from the 1960s when they created the PLO.
DeleteAll the Arab countries were occupied by Turkey in the 16th century and turned into Ottoman colonies, as Turkey got weak in the 19 century, Britain and France managed to take some of these countries turning them into their own colonies. Then after WW1 they took the remaining Arab countries occupied by Turkey including Palastine. This part if the world has the oldest civilizations evidenced by monuments thousands of years old, the countries there passed by periods of strength where their civilization flourished and times of weakness during which they were occupied by other countries. These countries witnessed cycles of being great nations, occupied nations, liberated nations etc..
DeleteI am not sure if you are familiar with that because Canada is a new nation with a relatively short history.
Russia had nothing to do with PLO, the only Russian thing is that PLO managed to get Russian weapons because of course it can't get USA weapons.
DeleteThese are light weapons because PLO is a liberation entity (like the French resistance and other smaller European countries resistance groups against German occupation during WW2).
Did you not read the blog? I briefly summarized the ancient history.
DeleteThe PLO was absolutely a creation of the Soviet Union. They created many similar organizations around the world as part of their Cold War efforts to destabilize the West. Don't be naive.
You missed the 1973 war Julie, Israelis did not let go land they seized by force from 1977 till 1982 because they are angels, but because of the counter attack by Egyptians to liberate their occupied land.
ReplyDeleteRead a Wikipedia article. They attacked and were completely beaten back yet again to the original lines and then past them. All the way to Damascus and Suez. If you were in Egypt you may have been taught a different history, I am sure.
DeleteI am 68 years old and was in the Egyptian army then, I was 19 km past the Barlif line that was destroyed by the Egyptian army and never retreated from that point till the seize fire in 1974.
ReplyDeleteSure, the Bar Lev line was an Israeli blunder. Logistically indefensible so far from the homeland across the Sinai. But Egypt made no further headway into the Sinai until Israel returned it in negotiations.
DeleteSure because Egypt can't fight USA who provided Israel with immense amount of weapons to make up for losing half its armored vehicles and 30% of its planes destroyed by Egypt in the first week of war. They even privided Israel with state of art electronic war weapons with Americans operating them as there was no time to train Israelis on them and Egypt captured many pilots and armored tanks teams from American and European nationalities who joined the war after Israel defeat, despite that Egypt managed to hold its recovered land and could not be pushed back to 5/10/1973 lines. Moreover the Gulf countries encouraged by the achieved first ever military victory took a bold decision and cut the petroleum supplies to USA and all European countries provided military support to Israel forcing them to push Israel to forget about further attempts on the EGY fronts and go for negotiations as the petroleum supplies cut disturbed the global economy pushing the petroleum prices to unprecedented levels.
DeleteAll that is very true. I am sure Egyptians fought bravely and cleverly in the war. If only it was for a better cause than committing genocide against the Jews.
DeleteBend over Julie, you are getting the cane for wasting time and effort outside the spankings.
ReplyDeleteI think this deserves at least 50 cane strokes to really wreck your ass so that you won't do it again.
Oh, I will do it again!
DeleteBut agreed. I'll shut down the comments on this post now.
Thank you everybody for your contributions!